Senator Magnus Ngei Abe, a member of the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, was a Minority Leader in the Rivers State House of Assembly, a former Commissioner for Information in the state and Secretary to the State Government.
Abe, who currently represents Rivers South East in the Senate, is the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Petroleum (Downstream). He chaired the Senate Joint Committee on Petroleum, Downstream, Upstream, Finance and Appropriation.In this interview, Abe bares his mind on the declaration of state of emergency in Adamawa, Borno and Yobe states and the crisis in Rivers PDP, among other issues.
EXCERPTS:

By Henry Umoru

How do you view the declaration of state of emergency in Adamawa, Borno and Yobe states by President Goodluck Jonathan?
The President as the Commander-in-Chief gets his briefings and information that the rest of us actually will not have. So, I don’t think it will be proper for anybody to question how he takes his decision based on the advice he is getting from his security chiefs. Given  the level of information available to him, he took the decision at the time he felt that the situation called for it and I would not like to make any guess on that.

What I would like to say is to call on all Nigerians not to look at the crisis going on today in some parts of this country as a political issue. It is not a PDP matter; it is not a Jonathan matter. Nigeria is under threat and we need to take that very seriously. As we speak now, the constitutional freedom guaranteed to all citizens of this country is no longer being enjoyed by millions of Nigerians.

The freedom of movement, freedom of association, freedom of worship and freedom of religion guaranteed by the constitution is not enjoyed by millions of Nigerians. Even the right to life is no longer there, people are taking lives with reckless abandon. We may have issues with others when it comes to politics, but, in this particular matter, I think all Nigerians need to rally together and stamp out this evil called insurgency. We should do what we can to bring it under control.

I would like to support our troops and all the security agencies who are putting their lives at risk to get this under control and I think we should not only support them, we should also honour them.

Again, people have talked about amnesty in relation to the state of emergency. I want to say that the two issues are not related. As far as I am concerned, the state of emergency does not, in any way, affect the issue of amnesty. Anybody who is conducting himself in a manner that is contrary to public order is not interested in amnesty. Anybody who is interested in amnesty will not be conducting himself in a manner that is contrary to public order; he will  be talking to the amnesty committee.

So, both issues can go together at the same time and I want to call on all those who are affected or involved to take advantage of the amnesty instead of creating a situation that calls for resolution by force.

You think the amnesty can work under the state of emergency?
I don’t think the two issues are related directly. If somebody wants to take advantage of the amnesty, the option is still open. If people don’t take advantage of the amnesty and are gathering somewhere to make bombs and carry out attacks, then the emergency powers would be available to security agencies to deal with them.

Do you think the state of emergency would resolve the issue considering that there have been troops on ground before now?
I believe that leadership is a contest of ideas. Nobody knows everything. In government, when you have a situation where there is breakdown of law and order, where people cannot obey the law and where people are not guided by the norms of what to do and what not to do, the option opened to government is to call on the army or the security forces to restore order by force. The other option is to try to dialogue with whosoever is doing that to stop it. So, if anybody has a third option that has not been revealed, he is free to contribute his ideas. If you think this one will not work, say what will work, all we want is peace in Nigeria. If I know of any other one that is better than the options available now, I would gladly say it right here – that we should not be doing this, this is what we should be doing.

But if people don’t have contrary or better ideas and this is the one that is on the table that we know, then we should support it to make it work. Right now, I cannot think of what we can do other than try to restore order in these areas by the means that are available to the Nigerian state.

Your party, the PDP in your state, is under siege. Your governor, Chibuke Amaechi, is believed to be at war with the president. Where do you stand in all of these?
I don’t know of any faceoff with the president. There are those who are taking advantage of their political ambitions and desires to create a situation of crisis in the South-South and I want to say clearly that having problem in the zone is not in anybody’s interest. It is certainly not in the best interest of the PDP, it is certainly not in the best interest of the president, it is certainly not in my own interest. So, anybody who genuinely wants PDP to succeed and anybody who genuinely wants the president to succeed will not be trying to create bush fires where there is no need for it.

I don’t want to say anything that will pre-empt the efforts that the Senate is making to reach out to all parties and allow peace to reign in River State, but I will like to say very, very clearly that you can have disagreements, we are politicians and there is no way we can all agree to everything, but that does not give the right to some of the things that are going on in Rivers State. It gives nobody such right and it will not work in favour of anybody. So, I just want, at this point, to be part of trying to look for solutions that will allow politicians to disagree, play their politics without playing politics with lives of people. How do you compromise the police to the extent that is going on in the state? We have talked about people saying that they don’t want state police because it could be abused by politicians. That is what is going on in Rivers State. Will even  state police do what is being done in Rivers State today?

So, I don’t want to go there. The PDP caucus in the Senate met and took a decision to set up a committee to look for a political solution and I stand by the decision, but I would like to repeat that what is going on in River State is not in the interest of the South-South, it is not in the interest of the President and definitely not in the interest of Rivers people.

Abuja politicians are alleged to be fanning the ambers of discord in River State. Do you agree?
The issue of Rivers PDP, as far as I am concerned, is neither here nor there. Like I said, people are politicians, people are looking for power, this is the season for that. But that by itself wouldn’t be a problem. Any time there is transition, politicians break into camps and try to do and undo; that is normal and shouldn’t be a problem. What I am against is the level to which this is being allowed to degenerate for whatever reason. That is what I am against. Outside of that, people are free to play their politics and whatever they want to do within the law, it is fine by me; they have the right. If people want to look at the truth and stand the truth on its head,…, we all went for a congress, everybody knew it, it was televised, we spoke after the congress, then somebody gets up to deny something at that level.

There are things I would  be afraid to do because, when my children grow up, I don’t want people to say ‘this is how your father was’. So, I won’t do it, but if people can do it for the sake of power, I have nothing against it, but what I am saying is that they should not set the state on fire. Don’t use the police as an instrument of politics, don’t do the things that can take the lives of ordinary people and create confusion that you might not be able to come out from.  Everybody is free to play politics and quarrel and make up, but let us draw lines that will allow people who are not politicians to be able to live their normal lives because the way we are going now, people who are not politicians would be caught in the crossfire and that is not the kind of leadership we should be providing.

As someone who participated fully in the congress, at what point did the Dan Orbih-led committee produce two lists?
There were no two lists, there was total peace until we saw the court summons.

But the one they brought to the PDP secretariat when they inaugurated that committee was signed by Dan Orbih?
Yes, he did. That is not an issue. I don’t care as far as people can sleep with what they do. I know that, at the end of the day, outside of man, we will answer to God. So, I am not worried by what people do, all I am saying is that whatever we are doing, we should do it in such a way that we are conscious that it can affect the ordinary people who are not involved.

Let us not do it in such a way that can bring our children out, and they start throwing bombs; we bring in the police and compromise them. As we are now, I don’t know the kind of security  Rivers people can get. The state has invested more in the Nigeria  Police than any other government; we have put in more in trying to create public order in the state than any other government. I challenge the police to disprove what I have said.

So, how can we because of politics turn the police around to become an instrument of disorder in Rivers State. All  I am saying is that we should take a deep breath, calm down, look at the interest of Nigeria, look at the interest of the South-South and, more importantly, look at the interest of the president. Is this the kind of problem we should be creating for the president at this time, with the situation in Nigeria, right in the South-South? Should we be doing that?

Are you saying that the crisis have has adverse effect on governance in Rivers State?
I am not in Rivers State. It is having adverse effect even here in Abuja. So, that question should be directed to the people in Rivers State, but I don’t know how you can have a situation where the House of Assembly was sealed and all sorts of things are going on and you ask if it is having adverse effect. Of course, it will have adverse effect on governance and the whole idea of what is going on is to create adverse effect on governance. The idea is to keep Amaechi busy and it is being done in a wrong way. It is not being done in a way that I think actually helps in bringing about solutions that we need in the region.

What is the way out?
I am a senator, a member of PDP Senate caucus. The caucus took a decision to set up a committee to look into the matter. I am confident in the committee and I don’t want to say anything that will look like I am pre-empting the effort the Senate is making. I think they will be able to find the way forward because there is no problem that doesn’t have solution. So, for now, I have confidence in the Senate’s effort and I want to urge all parties to give peace a chance and cooperate with the committee.

Constitution Committee and president’s tenure?
I am not authorized to brief the press on the activities of the Constitution Committee, but what I would say is that the committee is working in the interest of Nigerians and we are looking at the problems of our constitution, our democracy and trying to look for solutions to the challenges that we have based on our experiences so far.

Part of the reason people advocate six-year single tenure is that they actually think that if you look at our current democracy, out of the eight possible years that a president gets from the two terms of four years each, more than four years of it is lost to politics. You spend the last two years of the first term preparing for the next elections after spending one year; if you are new trying to learn the ropes, then you spend the next two years of the other term doing the succession battle. So, a lot of real time that could actually be spent in trying, the much people can achieve is lost, a lot of resources are also wasted in that effort.

So, to save the country that expense and rigour, if we have a single tenure, you come in, use one year to learn what you want to learn, you have like three or four years to give your best undistracted and, at the end of the day, you leave. I think the country will get more value. That is what a lot of people think and that is why people are advocating that. There is nothing personal about it; it is just a question of trying to find what is best for Nigeria.

And I want to make the point that any project needs a minimum number of labourers to get the desired result. If you want to build this house now, and they say you need 10 people to build it in one year, if you want to do it in six months, you need 20 people, if you want to do it in 10 years, you need five people, but you must have people to do it. The problem I am beginning to see with the Nigerian project is that we need to look for enough Nigerians to deliver it. This project cannot be delivered by Hausa people, it cannot be delivered by South-South, it cannot be delivered by Christians, it cannot be delivered by Muslims, it cannot be delivered by Yoruba people. This project can only be delivered by Nigerians who are prepared to put the interest of Nigeria, one Nigeria and one nation under God, over and above every other interest.

It needs leaders, who must be ready to sacrifice, not only their own, but even those around them in order to be able to achieve a dream of a prosperous and united Nigeria and, if we cannot find enough people, we will not be able to deliver the project. The question we all need to ask is, can we find enough Nigerians to deliver this project properly? We all need to begin to look for them, people who will be able to do the right thing at challenging times.

So, that is what I think we need to look at and, anybody who is looking at the constitution needs to look at it from that perspective, don’t start looking at how it serves the interest of the North or the West; you cannot develop the North without the West, you cannot develop the South without the North, it is one country. If one has one body, if one finger begins to hurt, you can’t sleep, if it is tooth ache, you won’t sleep, you won’t say that it is only when it is your eye that it is your problem, any part of the body that is not going well, it is your problem. You cannot educate the children in Igbira and not educate the ones in Baga, they will come and you will be awake. If Nigeria will work, let us make it work, if it will not work, let us have the courage to admit that it is not working and begin to review our situation.