In this interview with Ben Agande in Abuja, Dr Cairo Ojuogboh, the Deputy National Chairman of the Ali Modu Sheriff led faction of the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP speaks on the causes of the crisis in the party and how it can be resolved. Before the crisis, Dr. Ojuogboh had served as National Vice-Chairman of the party and in the House of Representatives.

Excerpts:

Sir, with the recent events now, what is the state of the reconciliation process?

We sincerely hope that the reconciliation effort will yield results but we are very convinced that this is the time that the reconciliation will be meaningful and people will take it seriously. We are both waiting for the verdict of the Appeal Court to know what next to do. But of course it is now very obvious the people who want to kill the party. You can see the press report where they said they are meeting with other parties and making arrangements to either form a mega party or move out of the party.

•Dr Cairo Ojuogboh

For those of us who are members of the National Working Committee, I want to assure you that we love PDP and that we are going nowhere, we are going to stay in here and rebuild the party.

When the champions of impunity leave the party, then we will return the party to the people who are the owners of the party, that is where we are and we are hoping that in the very near future that will happen.

Do you believe that your leadership is interested in reconciliation of the party in view of what has happened?

The National Working Committee headed by Ali Modu Sheriff is very desirous of reconciliation and working assiduously towards it but three governors would not let this party be; only three governors are the headache in this whole thing. One of them came out to say that Ali Modu Sheriff and his people are spoilers; let me tell you that Ali Modu Sheriff can never be a spoiler. The only thing Ali Modu Sheriff is spoiling is impunity and it is when impunity is spoilt and dumped in the garbage bin that PDP will rise again.

Who are these governors?

They know themselves; one in the Southwest and two from the South-South!

Are you comfortable with the role that your leadership allegedly played in the party losing the Ondo election?

What role did we play? It is the caretaker committee that made PDP to lose. Since the caretaker committee went to interrupt the peace in PDP we have not won anything. Three elections have been conducted since then; the senatorial election in Imo State we lost it; the Edo State election because of caretaker committee we lost it, Ondo State election because of caretaker committee we lost it too.

This is enough to tell the people that enough is enough. This caretaker committee should be disbanded and allow the party to be. They came out to say that they are waiting for Bola Tinubu to join them; he came out in a statement to say that he is not leaving the APC and he is not moving to any mega party.

They are waiting for Senator Bukola Saraki to leave the APC; Saraki said he is not leaving the APC; Saraki has named his ardent follower as the spokesman of APC and this is the man they are hoping will leave and then follow them. What are they looking for big names for? Big names don’t win elections any more. We are saying return the party to the people; a governor has one vote and that is what the common man on the street and the market woman and even the mechanic on the streets have

Why are we letting the people down? And that is why I love Ali Modu Sheriff; he is willing to return the party to the people.

The argument has been that there have been pronouncements in court to the effect that Ali Modu Sheriff has no right to lay claim ….?

(cuts in) Which court case are you referring to?

The one of Justice Valentine Ashi.

No, the Ashi matter has nothing to do with Ali Modu Sheriff; the Ashi judgment is talking about constitutional amendment, it has nothing to do with Ali Modu Sheriff. You have seen the correct judgment and you are talking about another one. Did you hear the ruling of Salau of the Court of Appeal when he was adjourning the case to the 15th of December for hearing? He said he does not want to behave like Justice Liman who went to hear a case that he shouldn’t hear and that is the problem in PDP. The Court of Appeal has told you that Ali Modu Sheriff is on the side of the law.

What is before the Court of Appeal is, is it right to obey court order, if it is right to obey court order, then Ali Modu Sheriff is the chairman of the party. If it is not right to obey court order then punish Ali Modu Sheriff for disobeying court order. There will be no surprises about what the Court of Appeal will come out with. And I am telling you that the laws of this country are very clear and straight forward.

That you are a state governor does not mean that you will use state money to purchase judgment in the court of law, it has stopped and that is why I am very happy with what Buhari is doing. The courts are now doing the correct thing and of course they will follow the rule of law.

Are you also reaching out to people from other political camps to strengthen, if not form a mega party?

No, we are not. First thing first, what we are doing today is to secure and recover PDP from impunity. Last week the committee on constitution review set up by the National Working Committee submitted its report. In the report, the committee recommended that the constitution should be amended to say that a sitting governor, a state chairman of the party and the national chairman of the party and the president if produced by the party, they will be barred from adopting a candidate for any election.

And any candidate so adopted will be disqualified by the party so that free and fair primaries will be allowed to take place in the party. In Ondo State, only one man was allowed to purchase form with the caretaker committee people. But with the people’s chairman Ali Modu Sheriff, six persons purchased forms.

The press has been used to oppress the National Working Committee. What is right is right. I am not supporting Ali Modu Sheriff or saying Ali Modu Sheriff is a good man or a bad man but what I am saying is that Ali Modu Sheriff is on the side of the law

If he is on the side of the law, why are you not operating from the headquarters of the party?

We are the poor masses, we are not the bourgeoisie, we don’t control state funds and we have said so severally, they mobilise thugs to come and chase the authentic people out of the party but of course the law courts have ruled and they have said it is Ali Modu Sheriff who is the chairman. Luckily, we are very prayerful and hopeful that the Appeal Court will uphold this. By the time the Appeal Court upholds it; this issue will be well resolved.

What are the chances of PDP in 2019?

Very bright because in 2019 we are going to take the congresses of the PDP to the people; no longer will Adamawa State congress be held by strangers in Gudu market. No longer will only one person come to stand and the governor will say you are the only candidate, it will not happen. No longer will it be that in the states of the north, surrogates like in Plateau State or in Benue State, will be allowed to take the ticket. In fact, the 2015 event is a blessing in disguise; it is to teach PDP that enough is enough, that impunity is finished.

But sir, is it not a contradiction that on one hand you are pushing for reconciliation and on the other hand you are pushing almost rigidly that your leadership is authentic and should be allowed to rule?

You mean that because I want reconciliation that I should lie to myself? You should say the truth and the truth shall set you free. If you want reconciliation you must speak the truth, if you don’t take the truth to the reconciliation table what are you going to achieve? Junk! So we are speaking the truth and the truth is that, Ali Modu Sheriff was in his house when governors went to implore him to come and chair the party. And when Ali Modu Sheriff arrived Wadata Plaza with his Agbada, 5,000 Agbadas followed him to the Wadata Plaza and when that happened people read insinuations into it. After the man came and put the things together you then want to throw him out? No way!

So what will the members of the caretaker committee do for you to accommodate them

Disband and then we could return to the negotiation table. Recognise Ali Modu Sheriff as the chairman of the party. Within two months convention will take place and nobody will hand pick anybody. You will go to the field and then test your popularity.

Assuming that those big names want to come back, are you ready to welcome them?

If they want to come back, they come back as individuals; we are not going to lay the red carpet for them, no. And we are not going to make the sort of mistake that they made in Ondo State; when Mimiko came back to PDP and they handed the structure of the party to Mimiko and since that happened PDP has not known peace in Ondo State and that was the result of what you saw in the field.

When Mimiko came back, we said, harmonise, his fellow governors told him, harmonise, Mimiko refused. If they harmonised, Oke wouldn’t have left, if Oke had the opportunity to contest in PDP, he wouldn’t have left. Oke and AD, took our 122,000 votes; if we added our 122,000 votes to the 150,000 votes that PDP scored, that would have given us 272,000 votes and what did APC score in Ondo State? So that is why I am asking the caretaker committee to disband quietly.