Chief Thompson Okpoko, SAN, is a former President of Nigerian Bar Association, NBA and Principal Partner of Thomas Okpoko & Partners.

In this interview, he spoke on the need for reform in the justice sector and why community policing, instead of state police is the best way to tackle insecurity in the country. He also addressed other issues.

By Akpokona Omafuaire

Salary increase for judicial officers Increase in salary has nothing to do with the propensity of Nigerians to go into corruption.

The increase in the salaries and earnings of judicial officers has been delayed for too long. Judges are human beings; they operate in the same market where every Nigerian operates. We do not know for certain how much a legislator earns. But that of the judges is known to everybody.

It has been inadequate from the start, so what the President has approved is a welcome development. It will motivate the judges. But a corrupt mind remains a corrupt mind. The Judges who work hard, who are not corrupt, will remain in that position. Those who have the  propensity for corruption and the politicians who corrupt them will continue to be corrupt. By and large, judges who are corrupt will find less justification in continuing corruption on the face of the increase in salaries.

It is a good encouragement to the judiciary. But it will be far from being true that the increase will stop corruption or in any way affect corruption, or reduce corruption. It will certainly motivate the judges but may not reduce corruption in those of them who are corrupt. Not every judge is corrupt. Some people have principles; they have their family principles, and principles of life. They know that we brought nothing into this world, and we will go away with nothing, nobody goes away with one kobo.

Supreme Court appointments

The question of the appointment of justices will continue to be a problem in this country. A situation where the Supreme Court insists that only people from the Bench can find their way to the Supreme Court is not right. The judges study law as taught and written by Professors of law. There are lawyers of outstanding quality whose submissions and research have shown what the law is. The duty of the judge is to consider the facts of the case and apply the law. If those who teach this law, those who make submissions on the law, and those who make research of the law are not qualified to be judges of that court, I don’t know how a man who started life as a magistrate can rise to that position and become Chief Justice of Nigeria. I think the policy that excludes non-judges from getting to the Supreme Court is wrong. We say we are copying America, is that what America is doing?

Holistic reform of judiciary

I have stated this several times that there is no point in bringing one Urhobo man brought up in the Urhobo culture to become a Justice of the Court of Appeal in Sokoto. It is a totally different cultural background and he would be at sea. So, my view is that the Supreme Court that is for everybody should be limited in two ways. One, we should put the subject matter which they can deal with as of right, then there should be a right of appeal from the Supreme Court of a state by leave, they will have to satisfy the Supreme Court that this is a proper case  which they should do in the state. I support and I’ve always advocated that if you want to say that you are a federation, don’t do it half way. Judges for the states are appointed from the states. Then suddenly, they are transferred from there to a federal jurisdiction to do custom and excise, custom law, tax law and all those ones.

Let the states have their Supreme Courts, Courts of Appeal if necessary, then from the Supreme Court of the state, appeals should go to the Supreme Court of Nigeria only with the leave of either that Supreme Court of the State or the leave of the Supreme Court of Nigeria. This system we have now is not promoting efficiency. Let me give you an example. A Federal High Court judge from Sokoto or any other state does not decide cases of contracts,  torts, and land cases, because it is basically a federal court that emanated from what used to be the Revenue Court. So they deal with taxation, diplomatic matters, custom and excise and so on. If you transfer that person to be a judge in Warri or Benin or Asaba and a customary court case comes to that court, how will that judge deal with it? Is he going to go back to school to learn how to do it?  The North does not have same land tenure as we have in the South, the concepts are totally different. The attempt by the Land Use Act to fuse them did not succeed. The law remains what it was, so I don’t see how that can be anything.

FG’s handling of kidnapping

I don’t know who kidnaps and who does not kidnap, but the truth of it is that there are many so called kidnappers today who  are political thugs for politicians. I don’t know who the thugs are or who the kidnappers are. But the way we organise our Police force is such that these problems will linger on for a very long time. How many times now have you seen a policeman patrolling along the street without checking vehicles? You only find policemen now on roadblocks either permanent or artificial. The Nigeria Police have to go back to learn to detect crimes before they are committed.

State Policing

What the police require to secure peace, is community policing not state police. State police will be duplication. It can only increase the cost of policing without any tangible benefits. In western Nigeria in those days, we had cases where the state police and the local government police at that time had a common Commander in Ibadan. The local government police will go and arrest the opponents of the party in power and big men use them. That is not the type of thing we want to introduce now. If you bring state police, you will duplicate it. There will be Inspector-General of State Police, and you will have 36 or 37 and you will have AIGs and so on. Efficient use of the police is what is required not the creation of a new structure of police. Let us get back to the drawing board and go for how each small unit in our place will be secured. If there was community police in these areas where they are kidnapping, they will know when a stranger comes to the town.

They will know the activities of those who are around the town. They will have the means of  communicating to the police and warn them. Now, we want to create state police, it is not every policeman that can be a detective and that is the truth that we have  refused to accept. It is not every policeman that can be an investigator. Restructure the police in such a way that they will be community-based, so those who will be serving in Warri, majority of them will be people from this area. Okere should have a small unit of its own of the Nigeria Police not state, the policemen who are living in Okere will know the movement of the people and strangers who are coming, they will feed the police who are investigating those they will be able to catch. But as it is now, we are talking about catching a kidnapper, how will you catch him? You go to the road, what do you see?

The NBA presented a paper to former President Obasanjo when he held a breakfast meeting with the Bar on the organisation of the Nigeria Police. At that time, I was the President of the NBA. We presented the paper, although obstructed in some ways but we managed to get it through to the President. I think we should go and think about how to organise what we have now as the Police Force and turn it over to accommodate Community Police.

Arrest, detention of FirstNews Editor

Abducting any citizen is wrong. It’s unconstitutional. A citizen, unless his act warrants arrest, ought not to be arrested. If you commit a crime and you are arrested, you cannot complain. But if because of what he said he was abducted, I think it is wrong. But, again, the editors have to hold on to their professional ethics. Sensational publications that will cause crisis are things that editors should not engage in. I know that editors do research, they think about what is likely to happen if certain actions take place, but when you go into prediction of danger of who is a thief and who is not a thief, then you are exposing yourself to danger. So, my answer to that one is that it is wrong to abduct whom you have no evidence of criminality against. If you have no evidence that the man has committed a crime, please don’t arrest him.

The fourth estate of the realm, should rein in their officers and members to ensure that they avoid sensation. Wars are caused by ordinary words and not by actions. That’s why the interest of the state or the nation state must be higher than that of any individual, so we should avoid what brings crisis.

Okuama & communal conflicts

First and foremost, the government should be proactive in all disagreements, not just communal. The government in the state so far as I know, is quite proactive in bringing in traditional rulers to intervene in so many cases. So it’s not just really their fault. But the main cause of the criminality we in the riverine areas (South-South) is the permissiveness of government and the agencies to allow men of means have control over what should be government assets, the stealing of oil, the illegal refining of oil. Today, you will hear that the soldiers have destroyed 134 oil refineries. Tomorrow you hear that have destroyed another 50 and so on. Yet, illegal refining is going on, whom are we deceiving?

Can the Nigerian government tell us that they don’t know where the illegal oil refinery is taking place? If so, where is the Navy, where is the Airforce, where’s the DSS and where are the DPOs and Commissioners of Police in their states?  Are they saying that they don’t know? I don’t know, if these people whom I have named do not know illegal refineries are taking place. If a man can steal oil and refine it, and go and sell and make money, he will seek to protect that money. He will seek to protect the source through which that money came. Therefore, violence will be the order of the day. We have to tell ourselves the truth.

Let government look at the main source of the criminality that is taking place everywhere. In Zamfara, they are killing people because of the mining of gold. In Jos, whole villages are being burnt down to give room for mining of minerals. We should go to those ones and tackle them from the root. Where is the law, when I was young, I knew as a fact that in the North or anywhere. You cannot mine unless you have a miner’s licence. What’s happening today, that’s the way I see it, I am one of the old citizens of this country.