•Says Immunity Clause allows for unlimited fraud
•Reveals: Security vote was 50 times govs’ annual salary

In the first part of this interview published last week, we prepared your minds for revelations regarding the following issues raised earlier viz:
What did Shagari tell Olunloyo? What did the Ooni of Ife have to do with the 1983 governorship elections in Oyo State? Who tried to appease Oduduwa shrine with money?
What was Olusegun Obasanjo’s role in that election? Read about Obasanjo’s attitude to money and it will shock you? Do you know how much governors earned during the Second Republic?
Did you know security vote was 50 times the salary of governors?
Dr. Victor Omololu Olunloyo provided answers to these and many more. Not forgetting that at 27,Olunloyo was the youngest member of the cabinet of Majekodunmi in the Western Region. At some point, he was voted the best Commissioner. This interview which took over a year to secure, came through eventually. Excerpts:

By Jide Ajani, Deputy Editor, Anthonia Onwuka

During the preamble you talked about Alhaji Shehu Shagari and…?

(Cuts in) Yes! President Shehu Shagari told me something sometime ago. He said some old classmates of his came to see him when he was President and they had come to discuss the contract project for the Ningi Dam. They bidded! They had got some very good Italian companies to back them up. It was a Friday morning and they had come because they thought the job was potentially still available. Shagari
requested that the minister in charge should bring the files so he could look through. By the time they brought the files on Monday, they submitted a report that the contract had already been processed and awarded.

Dr. Victor Omololu Olunloyo

You know what they did? Once the President requested for the files and the civil servants discovered that anything might happen, they simply hurriedly awarded the contract (laughter). The president would block kickbacks. Shagari told me that what he had discovered was that when he was asleep, someone somewhere in Nigeria would be stealing; while he was at work, someone somewhere in Nigeria would be stealing; that whether the President is asleep or awake, there are some people who have taken stealing as their second nature. The best discipline is that which is self-imposed. He is absolutely right. It is not true that all leaders are corrupt. Most are.

Obasanjo attempted to do the same thing with his anti-corruption crusade but people said he appeared selective; another president came with a relaxed atmosphere but people complained that the war against corruption was being lost?

Yes, I read about such accusations. To err is human and many people felt that Obasanjo was engaging in a selective crusade and that he was merely picking on those who did not support his Third Term ambition. But all that also has to do with Nuhu Ribadu’s zeal. Even at that, he was not able to catch all the thieves.

Relatively small ones are easier to catch! Some of them are on the run while some others are sitting squarely over their thievings. I think prevention is better than cure. I believe that the
parliamentary system that we ran before and the level of accountability that we had then was higher and, therefore, better. Obasanjo recently said what most people had been aware of before, that the legislators were over paid and were over paying themselves. This so-called oversight function is another way of extorting money. They would, for instance, go and meet somebody in charge of the petroleum ministry and breathe down his neck, or cajole or plead that they be given some jobs to do or get some funny patronage.
This is real double jeopardy for the country.

Some have come to the conclusion that the parliamentary system guaranteed more accountability?
Yes! The parliamentary system guaranteed more accountability.

When you talk about office holders…?

(Cuts in) Look, in my own case, I was able to do it because before becoming a state governor, I had been Commissioner for Economic Planning, Commissioner for Special Duties in the Governor’s Office, Commissioner for Chieftaincy and Local Government Affairs, Commissioner for Education, Chairman of this, Chairman of that, you know. I had held about seven chief executive positions and I knew the tricks people use. I still have papers of some people who wanted to supply science equipment, brought to me by my SSG, Shuaib Oyedokun. I said Shuaib, people will go to jail if I sign these documents o. Sometimes, Saka Balogun would come to me and ask if he could pay some money and I’ll tell him, pay the money and go to jail. I often asked them if members of their family had been to jail before and some would say no! They would then say but the man who has brought this thing is your friend and I’ll reply yes. In fact, the man could be my very good friend. But if you wish to go to prison, pay my friend public money that he is not entitled to. And we’ll laugh over it and I’ll tell them when the trouble comes, I will not say I know either of you. We still laugh about it till today. But now, stealing and diversion of money is the order of the day. I always warn people, carefully: remember the son of whom you are.

How much did you earn at that time as a state governor?
We earned N20,000 per annum. So, for three months, my salary was just about five thousand.

*Olunloyo

Was that all or there were other things?
There were no allowances, the only other thing that you had was security votes. The security vote was about 50 times the salary per annum. They still do that now. The security vote was not accountable. You could pinch the whole lot but no more. The immunity clause allows unlimited fraud. It should be scrapped.

What sort of arrangement is that?
That is the American system. The salary is N20,000, while the security vote is N1,000,000 (one million naira) per annum, passed by the House of Assembly.

What is the money for?
In America, it is meant to prevent stealing. I call it money that you could steal or waste. That’s what you can steal but what people do in Nigeria – local government chairmen, ministers, governors, presidents – is to really pluck out a lot of money through contracts, inflation of contracts. Fake supplies, bogus supply of equipment, purchase of old airplanes and boats that have been repainted. People just raid the country like that. But, as I’ve said, it’s about the motives of the leader and the value system.

Between UPN and NPN: You and the late Chief Bola Ige. Your victory in 1983?
Except you want me to publish a pamphlet! All the grumbling were for nothing. They, the UPN, knew what actually happened. They said our victory was a fraud but they were fraudsters. The documents that we put before Justice Babalakin were very strong and they made our case. I prefer to leave this subject now that Ige has gone, forcefully and unfairly rested. The UPN had documents, written and signed by the late Bola Ige himself, stating that they were not popular in many of the places and that they were likely to lose the election. You may succeed in getting Justice Babalakin. You may also be lucky to get another prominent leader in the UPN – incidentally, Justice Babalakin is from Gbongan, that fellow, too, is from Gbongan, and it was just a mere coincidence. The person was Bola Ige’s Commissioner for Finance. His name is Abiola Morakinyo (Abi Morak), a Chartered Accountant. Some of these secret things are very interesting and some even had psychic and spiritual undertones.

Spiritual undertone! How?
Do you know that I might not even have contested the elections except that the UPN kept making investigations, creating scenario analyses about the possible outcome of the elections of 1983? The Ooni of Ife knew a lot about these aspects of the matter. Morakinyo actually spoke to me two times – he is currently in the PDP. Morakinyo told me they (the UPN) hoped that I was not going to contest the next year’s elections. I said, ‘me, how now? I’m in Lagos and I’m not even a member of any political party yet.

I also told him that my friends, like Tunji Braithwaite, are in the Nigeria Advance Party, NAP. NAP had even promised me their ticket without primaries! About two weeks later, I came to Ibadan and Morakinyo, again, asked me that he wants a confirmation whether I would contest, so I told him that I would probably contest because the way you people have been pestering me about this election – somebody who has no money, who is just going about his own academic business normally, yet you people are so worried about him, then I am going to contest and something must be wrong with your system. He said ‘no, that we have found out that if you contest, you will win.’ But it also got me thinking. Once I put in, people supported me and I got more than 50% of the votes at the primaries. In fact two primaries were run. I won both. The first was to elect a consensus Ibadan candidate, the other was state-wide, but run on zonal basis.

How were you able to win since you were initially not in any political party. You claimed not to be interested and you claimed to have had no money? In NPN, you needed to be a heavy weight to win. How did you do it? Who were your backers?

Anlugbua? The same Olusegun Obasanjo, former President?

Yes. He was one of my secrets in 1983. It was in his farm in Ota that we mapped out our strategy and it worked. I told him that the UPN was afraid of me and I don’t know why. I said I must have something that they are afraid of but that I myself I do not know. My last account balance was just about N2,000, so how can we plan this thing. Obasanjo said ‘you must do this, you must do that; okay, pick an exercise book.’
As I opened the drawer to pick an exercise book, I found money and I immediately told him that ‘look, I came here to look for money and, at least, I’ve seen all this much!’

Money! What did Obasanjo say?
Obasanjo said, I am not the owner of the money you’re seeing there Victor, I asked, ‘talo’a ni? (Who then owns it)? Obasanjo said, ‘owo awon adie nuun’ (the money belongs to the chickens) (laughter)

Kano? Which election are you talking about? 1983 or 1999?
Ah! Good question. I thought you wouldn’t ask. Good. It was the same 1983 elections and that was how I also asked him. I said, ‘ Kano, for what’? Obasanjo said ‘my friend, listen, one Emir in Kano is the friend of an Oba in Ile-Ife, a Sultan in Sokoto is the friend of an Alaafin in Oyo. There are important links. We started writing down everything. I did not deviate from the strategy we agreed to work with.

Then we started looking for funds. One man who had been my staff, Alhaji Olootu is his name in the University of Ife, he said he can do this thing.‘I can go and look for the vehicles to be used for the campaigns.’ I think Alhaji Olootu got us 24 vehicles – no, 26; 24 first, then the two others that we used for campaigns.

Was it that he went to source for the vehicles?

How did it concern the Ooni of Ife?
I’ll tell you. There’s the Oduduwa Shrine. On the 13th of May, 1983, the Ooni summoned us – all the political parties and their representatives and candidates that the Oduduwa Shrine had revealed that the elections would be bloody, that there would be a lot of arson and murders and that he wanted to appeal to us.

*Olunloyo

That day, three months before the elections, the Ooni announced to all of us in that conclave that the man who is going to win is a man called Omololu Olunloyo, that he was seen on a white horse, and the horse was escorted by Bola Ige walking on foot, and after some time, Olunloyo dismounted and Ige was arrested and he did not return to his office. It was announced there-o, with everybody listening-o.

All the Obas in old Oyo State also held a meeting and decided to back me financially. Ooni, Owa, Alaafin, all these people supported me. Somebody was always with me in those days, Alhaji Fagunwa. Fagunwa is 85 years now. In December 1981, he came to me and said you are the next governor, but I asked him how can I be the next governor when I am not in any political party? He said we must slaughter some goats and I said okay you certainly relish barbeque. (laughter)

Are you always humorous like this sir?
How? Because I’m making you laugh? These are true life stories. Look, even in my engineering practice, the Ibadan City Council was owing me some money. So I told Alhaji Fagunwa to follow me to the council chairman so he can pay me my money for the design of Adelabu market, ‘pay me my money, my father was the treasurer in this Mapo, 1944 – 1948’. I went again in 1982 to ask for the money-o. Before the election in 1983, I still went to ask him for the money I was being owed but they did not pay. By the time I became the governor, I was paid, even I was overpaid. I then told them to remove the excess and pay me the actual amount they owed me.

Back to the prophecy – Were the other contestants there when the Ooni made the disclosures?
They were there. Find out whether on the 13th of May, 1983, the Ooni called us to come and hear what the shrine had foreseen about the bloodshed and the eventual outcome of the elections in the state. You can also find out whether he called all the political parties to the place to try to forewarn them about the 1983 elections.

There was this talk about the Ooni also speaking to MKO Abiola about the possible outcome of the 1993 presidential elections?

Abiola was asked to come before the Shrine of Oduduwa. He was asked to come before he commenced his campaign. Abiola went on the last day of his campaign. And he went there at 2.00 a.m.

Midnight?

In fact, 2.00 a.m was no longer the last day, it was the day after he had finished campaign. Oduduwa said he would win but he would not be given the power. Somebody was there with us that day and the fellow, Architect Lai Balogun, said he had N2 million that we could immediately use to appease the gods on behalf of Abiola. Then Ooni laughed and said he had more but it was pointless.

Which gods? Would the gods then change their mind?
As if you were there. Ooni immediately told him that it was not a matter of money or bribe for the gods. It is what the gods have said, there is no bribing the gods; that, in fact, he had enough money to do that if it was all about money. Kabiyesi said he stands by the truth at any point in time. Meanwhile, MKO gave me an assignment. He wanted me to do some things for him but I told him that Simbiat had always been the door to his house and since her death, that front door had been yanked off, so, his house no longer has a door. MKO was defenceless after the death of Simbiat.

When was this?
I went to Abiola for a favour. There was a business of candle wax I was attempting to get involved in so I needed Abiola to help with some facilitation and he said he was willing and ready. But after that, Abiola insisted that I be checked into Sheraton Hotel for brainstorming with him. All through the night, I cracked my brains. All the results were definite and very negative.

Was this before the Oduduwa Shrine made the revelation or after?
This was long before the revelation. Even the way Abiola died at the end of the day, it remained very suspicious.

You earlier said Gowon bailed you out, how?
It was in England, where I got myself into trouble and didn’t have a dime on me but had gotten on board a flight which did not fly. And Adamu Augie then said ‘your friend, General Gowon is in town, let me give you his telephone number.’ And he gave it to me. I called him and General Gowon took his small car and drove to the train station close to the airport and came to pick me and gave me 500 Pounds Sterling.

When was that?
That would have been almost 20 years ago before he came back. He drove himself to the railway station, met me on the platform there and I broke down in tears. That this was a man who had been in charge of Nigeria, his humility, his response and so on. He used to call me ‘Our Trouble Shooter’ because if they had any problem in government, they would call me in to tackle it.