In this chance interview with Governor Rotimi Amaechi of Rivers State, he tackles the twin issue of minimum wage and the big money paid out annually in the name of petroleum products’ subsidy. According to Gov. Amaechi, Nigerians should be forward looking about development and concludes that for as long as billions of naira is wasted on subsidy that a few Nigerians pocket, industrialisation and development would continue to elude the nation.
He also speaks on his chairmanship of the Nigeria Governors’ Forum, the sports festival that kicks off today and how far he has taken up the challenge of developing Rivers State.
Excerpts:

By Jide Ajani, & Dapo Akinrefon

The argument of state governors on the minimum wage is such that it is being predicated on the ability to have more money from the removal of subsidy on petroleum products and then pay the new wage. Some people frown at that….

No, the governors have not said that it is the money for the subsidy that is to be saved and shared that would be used for the payment of the minimum wage.  That is not true.

What we are saying are different.  First, the issue of subsidy is such that it only enriches a few individuals because when you look at it critically, how many Nigerians are enjoying this so- called subsidy that is being talked about? What is the correlation between the subsidy that is being paid and the lives of Nigerians?  How has it affected the lives of Nigerians positively? Do you know that last year alone, over N1 trillion was expended on subsidy?

The argument of the state governors is that resources should be saved wisely and then allowed to go down to touch the lives of the average Nigerian.

Second, we are not saying give us the money from the subsidy that has been saved to pay salaries.

Our argument and my own argument is that when these funds are freed, Nigerians stand to benefit more than just a handful of brief-case-carrying fuel importers who get the subsidy.  Some even use the subsidy money to do their business – that is the truth.

When you talk like this, the impression is that once the subsidy is removed, everything would become wonderful, yet we have heard…

You have heard it before! That is what you were going to say. But what I am telling you is simple.  Look at Rivers State, we have two licences to set up refineries, yet, we cannot set the refineries up.

Why?

Because this issue of subsidy makes nonsense of the matter! If we set up refineries and the Federal Government continues to fix the prices of petroleum products, it would not be profitable for anybody. Look at what is happening in the GSM sector.  I agree, there would be initial discomforts but in no time, Nigerians would be the better for it. Once the deregulation is complete, Nigerians would have the choice to make and if the price is not right in one place, they can simply move to the next station and buy, just as it is happening with all the GSM service providers now.

We have to agree to free that money that is going into a few pockets for 150 million Nigerians.  Do you know what N1 trillion would do to the economy?

But that was how governors said the excess crude money should be shared, yet most Nigerians would argue that there was not much to show for it?  In this case, what would the people be given in return because the pains would be much? Are we looking at a possible set of palliative measures to cushion the effect when the subsidy is removed?

First, that there is nothing to show for excess crude is not true.

Let me tell you, one of the ways we can maximise the benefits from the subsidy removal is, say when state governors tell their people what to expect from the revenue that is being expected.

In Rivers State, I tell my people how much money comes in and how I want to spend it.

The truth of the matter is that most governors do not have money, they are broke but they do not want to admit because when you know that the governors don’t have money, the respect will be lost – that is part of the problem.  Most of the states do not have money.

In Rivers, if we begin to implement that N18,000, we would be paying so much because now we pay about N6.8 billion on salaries alone monthly.

If a mechanism is put in place such that a review mechanism on how a state governor is spending his own share of the money is gauged, then all these talk would be avoided but the reality on the ground is that the funds going into just a few pockets should be freed for the benefit of Nigerians.

Nigerians should understand that the governors would be responsible enough to do what is right for their people.  We can agree on specific projects that the governors can embark on and if you ask me, it should be agric projects to generate employment.

Okay, in your own case, what would you be prepared to do with the money when freed?

We promised our people in Rivers State mono rail, good education and constant power supply. We are on target and we are going to deliver on our promise.  I have the trust of my people and they follow what I do.

But this issue of minimum wage, you have misgivings against the Nigeria Labour Congress, NLC, why is that so?

Why should NLC in Rivers State tell me about a meeting in Abuja with the Federal government purporting that we have agreed on the wage to be paid? In law, if you are not party to a contract, you are not bound by that contract.

People have been talking about the fact that the state governors signed the agreement. Well, they should please produce the document. They have to bring the document(s) where we signed.  There was an earlier meeting and the governors made it clear that we will not be able to pay.  People also talk about the fact that a law was passed and we say only if they put that caveat that this is what the Federal Government should pay their staff, then, the state governors can go back home and decide what should be paid their staff.  Let nobody get it wrong, the Nigerian worker deserves more than N18,000.  But what we are saying is that the peasants on the street have suffered so much. This country needs to grow beyond this, this country must provide for its citizens.  How many workers are we talking about?

What is your wage bill in Rivers State?
We have 52,000 workers in the state civil service.  I hold stakeholders’ meeting every three months and I bare my expenditure and my income. I explain to the people of my state the projects we are doing, you have seen the schools we are building, then, I have told them I want to build a new university and the university will cost me N150 billion. I am going to accommodate all students, all staff on campus and it is going to be a modern university. I want to provide for the larger population and not just for the 52, 000 persons only. My workers know what I earn; my workers know how I go about spending. I am not saying workers don’t deserve to be paid properly. They do

You asked about the wage bill. Good!  I collect an allocation of about N10bn.  Internally-Generated Revenue, IGR, is about N3bn to N4.5bn.

Salaries gulp about N6.8bn; meanwhile I have also taken over the payment of teachers’ salaries at the local government level.  That is some N2bn.  I also build the schools as well as build the health care centres at the local government levels.  When you implement this N18,000, the bill would balloon.

You talk about 52,000 workers and the other things you have to do but the issue of the minimum salary is law and…

Yes, it has to be obeyed as a law. But I have not finished what I’m explaining to you. There is the administrative cost of the governors of every state and I also have my own administrative cost, too – that is the cost of operating as a state governor.

We are building 750 primary schools – we have built 456 already at a cost of N112m per school.  We have built roads and the road from the heart of Port Harcourt to the airport cost some N36bn, we did the Eleme Flyover – for about N7bn.

We are funding security 100 per vent in the state; we bought Armoured Personnel Carriers, APCs; we fund intelligence; kidnapping which used to be about 15 per day has come down drastically to just about seven per month. The mono rail is costing the state some N54bn.

Don’t you think you’re taking on too much?

You may be right to some extent, but within the context of developing the state in the overall interest of the people, then we are not taking on too much. What is the essence of funds that you keep when there are things to be done?  In fact, it is when you keep money aside needlessly in the face of competing projects that you encourage corruption.

I’m sure you asked that question because of the cost of the mono- rail.  We tried mass transit before using the BRT system but it was no more than a waste of time because the buses could not do more than two return trips per day because of traffic.  But with the mono-rail, it would convey people in their thousands and with ease.  People should be bold to do things.

As chairman of the Governors’ Forum, labour has said it would take the fight to the governors, what is your reaction to this?

When they say they are taking the fight to the governors, they talk as if the governor constitutes the 5.6 million people in Rivers State; he does not. The governor is just one person out of the 5.6 million people, so who are the people who are going to suffer? The people, of course. Should labour get the people to suffer?

One of the requirements of a governor is the capacity to give a very long rope, don’t just give up easily. For the benefit of Nigeria, don’t give up. I have given examples, people need power; if I pay labour N10bn what about the industrialisation of Rivers State that would employ more workers?

What possible solutions should we be looking at?

We think the workers will get their N18,000, we think the Federal Government will give fiscal federalism, in the short term; we can make do with a review of the revenue formula that gives more money to state governors. That way, it would be possible to pay the money among other things that the state governors intend to do for their people.

One of the challenges is that if we peg that money at that N18,000, it would mean that that is the highest form of salary in the world because in other countries, they peg salaries in categories and not a flat rate as is the case with this N18,000.

You talked about the review of the revenue sharing formula, what percentage are the states looking at?
We are looking at 40 per cent. If we get that, we will be very willing to pay because then, you will have more money to develop the state and also have money to pay workers. Look, there is no state governor in Nigeria who is not patriotic. The state governors want to develop their states but the revenue formula is such that the Federal Government gets 52 per cent of the revenue.

As Chairman of the Nigerian Governors’ Forum, what plans does the forum have for the country?
What worries us most as governors is how to liberate the Nigerian economy. Back home, maybe my mother will be able to afford three square meals because I am the governor, what about the poor people on the streets? We believe that the current economy is skewed, and we need to make changes in the constitution, so, we are looking at constitutional changes. We think that if we make those changes that empower the state with more responsibilities and more funds, then, changes would come.

Now, these constitutional changes that you are talking about, how will they be achieved?
The National Assembly is the key and it is necessary for the Governors’ Forum to engage the National Assembly, we will engage the people because the people are more important than all the arms of government. If it is the programme of the President to have some constitutional changes, so we will go with the President who wants some constitutional changes. Then, we go to the National Assembly after the President has told us what his agenda is and at the National Assembly we will say this is what we think is the right thing to do, to be able to move this country forward.

The power at the centre appears to be too heavy and there is the need to devolve power downwards. We are looking at the future of the country; we are looking at what we can do to boost the economy.

In terms of constitutional amendment, which areas should Nigerians be looking at, especially in the light of this revenue sharing formula?

Ordinarily, the law says that the revenue sharing formula should be reviewed every five years, but what we have in place for now has been on for 11 years.

That must change.The other point is that Nigeria is a federation and as such we expect that the laws should allow for the operation of true federalism – that is what the governors are looking to achieve. Let me give you an example of this.  We have over 500 megawatts of power lying idle in Rivers State because the law says we cannot distribute.  We have written to the Federal Government to allow us do it and we got a reply in the negative. That inhibits development.

Does it not sound strange that the President is a Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, member, you also belong to the same party and there are about two- third state governors of PDP extraction, so why is it difficult to amend the constitution and allow for true federalism to gain ground?

I agree with you on that and that is what we are determined to pursue now with the constitutional amendment because Nigerians remain the focus.  We are making progress. In the letter the Federal Government wrote to us regarding distribution, we were informed that whatever we invest in that area, whenever it wants to sell off the distribution arm, our investment would be taken as equity.  We are going to deliver on that.

One would have thought that the Governors’ Forum was constituted to ensure that development spreads across the federation. But that does not seem to be what is on ground, it looks like some states are more developed than others.

I sympathize with my colleagues because people usually say that the Rivers State governor is doing well, the governor of Akwa Ibom State is doing well, and the Lagos State governor is doing well. It is as a result of the resources at our disposal.

What is the situation with the National Sports Festival that Rivers State is hosting?

We are having a National Sports Festival, the opening ceremony is July 3, (today);  the President will be coming and some of our colleagues will be coming and it will be a wonderful celebration. We are trying to showcase how much investment we have put in place in terms of the sports festival; we have world class facilities we have put in place to enable Nigerians compete for laurels and all that. We are hosting to win. We have football pitch, we are trying to build a modern stadium, which will accommodate 26,000 spectators and every facility you can have in a modern stadium.

We expect the festival to grow our micro-economy; it took about N24 billion to complete the stadium. We have a road network of about  five kilometres

The Governors’ Forum, has an image problem?

Yes, it has an image problem created by the press.

But we report the governors and the way they conduct themselves…
It is about openness, some of them do not want people to know that they do not have money because if people know, the respect would be lost.  But the truth is that they do not have the money.

I am going to take on this fight to let them know that it is important for them to open up and let people know the truth.  It is not enough to keep pointing at Gov. Amaechi or Gov. Fashola or some other governors as benchmarks because the resources are not the same.  Compare apple to apple and compare orange to orange.

Having tackled the issue of kidnapping and the boys in Rivers State, what advice would you proffer in this battle against the Boko Haram issue?

The Boko Haram issue is a difficult one.

Why?

It is ideological.

The one in the South-South, too, was ideological?

What was ideological in that? Who told you it was ideological, it became criminality when you destroy things even meant for your own sustenance and development.

So, if you were a governor in one of those states in the North, what are those things that you would be doing?
What I would be doing for now, because of the limited resources, they would want to protect their citizens more than they are doing now because they would need to provide a lot of security equipment too, to saveguard lives and property of the people.