•’Train captives abandoned to their fate, some may die there’

•Says train attackers also behind Kuje jailbreak: I told security agencies before they struck

•‘I quit negotiation after being blackmailed, my personal integrity threatened’

By Ibrahim Hassan-Wuyo

Malam Tukur Mamu, an associate of Sheikh Ahmad Gumi and traditional title holder of Dan Iyan Fika, is the man who successfully negotiated the release of the first two sets of the more than 70 passengers who were kidnapped by bandits after vicious attack on a train travelling from Abuja to Kaduna about four months ago.

About 35 abductees are still in the custody of their captors after 37 were freed in about four batches. In this interview, Mamu speaks on his frustrations over alleged government’s failure to cooperate on the quick release of the captives, his fears and how he thinks the issue of terrorism can be handled with a view to bringing an end to the menace. Excerpts:

You’ve done a great job by negotiating the release of the train captives. What made up your mind to embark on this gesture?

Honestly, it is not an easy job. It is quite challenging and risky too, especially in the kind of environment we are, and especially in a corrupt system where very high people in position of authority are making so much (money) out of this insecurity crisis.

Most of the problems we have regarding this insecurity, I can tell you categorically, they are mostly artificially created by us or created by very few corrupt elements in government. As long as there is sincerity on the part of government to squarely address this issue, I can tell you this is something that can be contained and it is something that could be within limitation, especially with the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces.

Coming back to your question, I did not initiate or just accept to be part of those who would negotiate the release of these innocent victims. Precisely two months after the abduction, and with little or no progress (of release) on the part of government, some of the hostages or many of them as I was made to understand, through an audio that was sent to me, suggested that the only person to be contacted and they believed could mediate between the Federal Government and these abductors is Tukur Mamu. Based on that, some of them in captivity gave my number to them (bandits) and they contacted me.

Naturally, I discussed it with my principal, Sheikh Ahmad Gumi, and his opinion was that it’s an opportunity to for us to see what we could do, even if that will lead to the freedom of one person in that position. I gave them a simple condition. The condition was that, first, I did not bring myself into this matter. Second, I was coming in because of the humanitarian aspect, to contribute my quota to see that their ordeal, their travail comes to an end as soon as possible. Third, I said “you people (bandits) should be sincere to yourself and then to me in anything we are communicating, in the interest of these people that are with you”. They accepted (the conditions) and we started along that line. Initially, government cooperated and it was because of that cooperation that we succeeded with security agencies in negotiating the release of the first 11 victims. But after the release of the 11 victims, honestly, there has been a stalemate and, largely, I can confidently say it is the failure of government that delayed the whole process.

Otherwise, whatever needs to be done as a negotiator, I have done, I can say that I have engaged them excellently well in dialogue; in seeking compromise, and in making them to understand that these people are not at all connected to anything government. As long as government cooperated, I can tell you this issue would have been over by now. This informed the decision that, I think, I may no longer participate in anything like that because of lack of cooperation from government.

Only God knows what’s in the mind of a terrorist but you got these people talking. What skill did you deploy to make these abductors to listen to you?

I think this is very simple. If you can recall, I was among the top people that were among the entourage of Sheikh Ahmad Gumi about a year ago when we visited virtually all the notorious forests in the North-West, where bandits are virtually ruling. We didn’t go there with the army, we didn’t go with any weapon; we went there with clean hearts and preached to them the message of God. The Sheikh, frankly, at every interval, told them that “this thing you people are doing is not accepted by Allah”, and that there is nothing more than peace and understanding.

We have done so much understanding the genesis of insecurity, especially banditry and kidnapping. We have done so much in trying to pacify them but our only predicament, our only set back was where we were expecting they (government side) will even give us support, and that is why that mission failed. So, having gone into that and with what we’ve achieved with Sheikh Gumi at that time, even though it failed because of lack of government support, I think, naturally, it gave me lot of experience to go into this even though I did not prepare for it, even though I did not ask for it, even though I did not wish to or participate in anything like that if not because of the humanitarian angle.

That is just it, it (abduction) is very easy because these people, as I keep on saying, we agree they are terrorists and what they are doing is against the law. What they are doing does not reflect anything Islam. But what do you do in a society where they allow few elements to have access to sophisticated weapons, in a society where there is easy movement from one location to another; in a society where you cannot control the borders, in a society where there is proliferation of arms and drugs? It (terrorism) is as easy as anything I can say.

So, once you’ve this kind of situation, definitely the society pays dearly for it and it all boils down to lack of leadership. Then, if you consider our population here in the North, coupled with the high rate of u employment and high unprecedented corruption in the system, coupled with endemic poverty and so many other issues that can make people to be vulnerable to being recruited, you can imagine how bad the situation will be. In the North here, because of the number of out-of-school children, and the issue of poverty and unemployment, boys as young as 14, 15 can be recruited into terrorism with N30, 000, N50, 000. Government needs to do so much if we are to contain this crisis. To really address your question, dealing with these terrorists, especially when it comes to negotiation and engagement, as long as you’re very much sincere, as long as you approach them in the right direction, I can tell you that they listen.

They listen very well and that is why, sometimes, I wonder how government operates. If, for example, we have set of misguided elements, if, for example, we have set of criminals that listen and make compromises, why can’t we take advantage of that in the interest of the vulnerable ones, the suffering ones? What happened in the Niger Delta before now? There were a lot of bombings, killings, kidnappings. And it affected the economy of the nation.

But out of the wisdom of the late President Yar’Adua, he sat down with the leaders and negotiated with them, provided employment opportunities for them, provided education for them. Now, the peace we are enjoying in the Niger Delta, especially in the protection of our pipelines, is it the power of the military that resulted into that? It is not.

Virtually all these young boys that we were seeing, with their commanders, they are, up till now, on the payroll of the Federal Government .They are the ones guarding oil pipelines and now you don’t hear about bombings. You hardly hear cases of kidnappings in the Niger Delta. So, if, out of the wisdom of the President, he can do that and achieve peace, why wasting billions of Naira without commensurate result? I heard that from 2016 to date, the President had spent 16 billion US dollars on security.

How much would you spend out of this staggering amount to pay these people to protect our communities and provide them employment opportunities? In fact, from my experience with these people, if you can even bring their children into the conventional education system, for example by establishing standard schools in the forests, this is something that can be done and it will easily attract them, little amenities. Very little will be spent and people will be protected.

In your conversations with these terrorists, did they give reasons for their actions?

The only reason they always used to advance is that government has been unfaithful to them. They said government has been attacking their people and they said they have not benefited anything as Nigerians from government. They said a lot of people in government are stealing billions while many cannot even afford what to eat.

They said as Nigerians they are supposed to have their own share of these resources but they are not having it. So most of these complaints, some of them are legitimate, even though you cannot justify anybody to carry arms, if a criminal brings a complaint that is justifiable, a responsible leadership should sit down and analyse, and then see a way out of the situation. More so this is a situation whereby military power cannot guarantee security of life and property.

These train abductors said government knows what they want. What is your take on this?

Yes, certainly they know because through the mediation process we did, we have presented series of demands. Most of the demands we’ve presented are not new in situations of kidnappings. They are not new to government, it happened during President Jonathan era. It happened during the early life of this administration with the Dapchi abduction. So, when you allow young boys to have the power, for example, of going to Abuja and operating for as long as three hours without any military or security intervention, you must be prepared to take painful decisions especially if these painful decisions will guarantee freedom.

Can you give us a breakdown of how the negotiation for the victims went?

Which one? The recent one or the first one?

You were involved in the first two…

Yeah, you know the first one, as I said, because of the cooperation we got from the Federal Government, it didn’t even take us one week to negotiate the release of the first 11 victims. The process was smooth and it went very well. I can confirm to you that, that process, because of the cooperation of the government, we did not even give the terrorists one kobo.

But the second one as reported by many media organisations, I singlehandedly handled it because all the process that we initiated and succeeded in making them to have a compromise was not accepted by government eventually, after wasting time and putting the lives of these innocent passengers at risk. Eventually on my own, I convinced them that “for us to get the attention of government and for us to get the attention of well meaning people in the society, why can’t you people as a gesture consider the release of especially the sick ones among these captives?

That would give us the opportunity to explore even your monetary or even your other demands”. It was based on that I engaged them on health grounds and, eventually, I succeeded in singlehandedly negotiating and even evacuating the abductees. I succeeded even though, according to some media outlets, money exchanged hands and I used to tell them that, maybe because as the negotiator, I think it’s possible that, out of desperation, some family members must have reached out to the bandits and paid something.

But as far as I am concerned, the process I went through and the assurances they gave me, nothing was paid as of that time. It was after that development and considering even the glaring risk and instances of even trying to blackmail me, even threatening to kill, that I reviewed my position, and then I will be willing to even sacrifice my life, but there is no price for personal integrity.

So, based on that, honestly, and concerns of family members, all these things, I said I will no longer participate. Because in a situation whereby you’re working for a government that does not even recognise, encourage or even support, you will be on your own and you will be at the receiving end. Especially where you know some of them in high positions are making a lot of money out of this illegal business.

Apart of you and Sheikh Gumi, which other persons were involved in this negotiation process?

Honestly, no other persons. I have not heard of other persons.

In some reports, the terrorists have been described as “merciful”. What would you say on this?

If you know how normal Fulani bandits operate and how unfaithful they used to be especially in terms of molesting their victims, doing all sorts of things to them, then these people are really merciful. Because it was the testimony of all those who were released that, for example they slaughtered rams, they slaughtered cows for them and they would not allow even a single person to inflict harm on anybody, especially the women.

You can hear the testimony of those that have been released that they were being treated very well except the recent one, the unfortunate video where they were provoked because of how soldiers prevented family members from reaching out to them, to collect their loved ones. These people if you discuss with them sincerely, they hardly fail. And we’ve seen a situation whereby the normal Fulani bandit will even kill a victim and will not tell you when you take ransom money to him; he will take the money and kidnap you as well. But these people I can tell you if they give you their word, they hardly fail you and I’ve not seen any failure so far.

Do you foresee an end to banditry any time soon?

Honestly with the current approach of the Federal Government I do not foresee it. In fact, there will be an escalation of it, massive escalation. There will be massive escalation in as much government does not understand or identify the magnitude of the crisis and the way to go about it. As it is now, we are just going blindly; we are just wasting billions of Naira and without commensurate result, only enriching very few in the military, and this set of people will fight anybody that will contribute to bringing this thing to an end.

That’s why this venture is very risky especially in a corrupt and insincere society like Nigeria where, for example, those in power and position of authority are not held responsible for their failure. You can appoint somebody as army chief or CDS or National Security Adviser, if, at the end of the day you cannot hold him responsible for his failure or success, then I don’t see the reason for this kind of leadership especially where innocent, helpless, vulnerable Nigerians are mostly the victims of this insecurity.

I can confirm to you, most of these big people, senators, governors, as the election is getting closer, they have relocated their families outside this country because of the unpredictable situation everybody is seeing today. What kind of a country is allowing the poor to die, allowing the poor to take his fate in his hand? But the unfortunate thing is that, even if they do it, God will not allow them to enjoy what they accumulate.

What would you say about the fate of the remaining train victims in the forest?

This is very important because…

You said you were withdrawing from this negotiation process while relations of the victims see you as their last hope since they said the government had failed…

You’ve been in this office for an hour or so and you saw the influx of the relatives. They have hope in me and they’ve seen it in reality that, if given the opportunity, this thing will come to an end. But the reality I used to tell them at this point, at this juncture is that I’m incapacitated because the risk is too much, the threat of blackmail is becoming glaring and even my personal integrity is being threatened.

So as long as there is no change of attitude from government, especially towards addressing this crisis, and then the plight of these innocent victims, I can tell you the only thing I will do whenever they come is to advise them.

That is the least I can do because I cannot risk my life the way I did before. This is as long as there is no support from government and I’ve made my position and that’s my position. Coming back to the question regarding ransom payment, government, by their submissions, said they are discouraging the payment of ransom.

But when you allowed a situation to escalate as long as this, four months plus now, and then with the window opened by the terrorists group that family members can reach out to them, how do you prevent those that are in position to negotiate and give whatever they want to give to them and secure the release of their people?

You cannot prevent it as a government. The implication of that, government does not know. If you do that, you are giving opportunity to the very few that can afford to secure the release of their loved ones. I can confirm to you that out of the 35 that are still in captivity, over 80 percent of them cannot even afford to pay five million Naira not to talk of N100million. So, the implication is that the very few rich will be able to get their loved ones released while the majority poor will be left to rot, die there. That’s the implication.

Any link between the Kuje Prison break and the negotiation with these terrorists as insinuated?

I was the first person to alert the security agencies that there’s impending threat. An audio was sent to me and I released the audio to security agencies. Because part of what provoked them, after negotiating with them, that now “we’ve reduced the number of people that would be released to us to only 10, their comrades”, there was delay from government unnecessarily. So, they now sent an audio saying that since government was not serious to implement it, “we’ve a means of securing (release) our people wherever they are in this country”. So, I was the first person that alerted the nation after the Kuje attack that the same people that attacked the train were the same people that carried out the Kuje attack. They’ve vindicated me with the latest video. That is to show you the kind of government we have and it is very unfortunate.