*Says Jonathan has listening ears
*Details of many shades of corruption

Dr. Abdullahi Adamu is a two-term governor of Nasarawa State. Adamu,  a lawyer, farmer and politician, is a member of the Senate. In this interview with Sunday Vanguard, he speaks  on critical issues that could shape the polity for the better in weeks and months to come.  For Adamu, who had served as a party chairman, Board of Trustees, Secretary, former minister, president of farmers’ association and now a law maker, he is eminently positioned to assess Nigeria at a time like this.  Excerpts:

By Rotimi Ajayi, Regional Editor, North, & Paul Odenyi

You were Chairman of Nigeria Governors’ Forum at a time. Do we still need such a group now?  In fact, with what has been going on lately – revenue sharing formula, minimum wage, removal of subsidy – do we still need such a group?

We do more than ever before. As we grow, we have more challenges. People are becoming more and more educated, people are beginning to know their responsibilities, people are beginning to take a look at the government, we are now getting more people in civil society that are beginning to question governance, that are beginning to hold their leadership accountable for their stewardship and they are beginning to ask, what system do we operate?

Is it the type all over the world or is it different in terms of delivery of good governance? If there are different types, which one are we practising? How are we delivering on the goals of good governance? People are beginning to ask these questions? And what is the relationship between state and federal governments? What is the relationship between states and local governments?

What is the fiscal relationship between them? These are the questions that are beginning to emerge, policies that come by the day do have bearings with these relationships that we talk about and these states are very dynamic.

They change with time and because these changes occur, sometimes we have frictions. Take the issue of revenue allocation, take the issue of minimum wage, take the issue of what percentage of revenue goes to the federal, state and local governments? These are issues that different parts of the country have different emotions about and therefore the responses are different and some  time they can overheat the polity.

So, you need the leadership of the federating units sometimes to stick together and say the way these things are going, we need to check ourselves, the way they are playing around and therefore certain compromises become inevitable. It is only in this Forum that we used to do this. Over and above that, the Forum is to share experiences.

There is this impression among Nigerians that the legislatures, of which you are a member, really do not serve them because they can’t see the immediate effect of legislation in their lives?

That is because of the level of education.

I think, if you take the level of literacy in the country, you will appreciate why such question will arise. Over and above that, there are people who are educated and who don’t know where they are placed in the government of the day. There are people who are educated who don’t know how to take to task the leadership in the country, in the state or at the local government or in their various communities. The Nigerian citizen at this point of our civilization is more aware of who is providing him water supply, is more aware of who is involved in education, who is building the school, who is getting university sited where, who is involved in what road is being constructed and who is behind the road going on there; but he is not so much involved with the art of legislation.

Thus the role of the legislature goes beyond campaigning for the assembly, they don’t see the work of the legislature and the opportunity they can get today, as we see the hands of the executive on daily basis. Because it is the end-product of legislative work that you see. Even the oversight function of the legislature is a transient kind of work, a thing that you cannot quantify, but it is the work of the legislature to see what is it that Nigerians are looking for, what is it that is missing and how will it be provided? What is the framework that will make it possible for a particular policy to be developed as a result of legislation?

Is it the fault of the people or  the legislature that does not carry Nigerians along?
I think the foundation is to get to know what you want and who is to provide what you want. Here are two people locked in your service, in providing you service, improving your life, ensuring good governance. One of them has the money. He can say ‘ok, we want to build university of science and technology, there is need for it in a place’.  He is the head of that government.

The other person is involved in ensuring that in building this university, the people are getting the value for their money. Is there a framework that will make a provision for more  or this is the only one you have but you do not have a research institute for certain things? The other person who made the law to make that possible is the legislator.

The fact here is because of the low level of education  people are not able to distinguish between the role of the governor and the role of the legislator. This one leads in law- making, the other one in provision of amenities  in the practical form. Obviously, this one is the more practical assignment that anyone can see.

You have had varying experiences in politics and in various positions.  How do the experiences affect your present position?

I thank God that I have gone through that. Yes, I was a minister;  yes, I have  been a governor for eight years; yes,  I have led the party before. I was secretary and chairman of NPN (National Party of Nigeria) in old Plateau State, I am the Secretary of the Board of Trustees of the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP; I have been the president of Association of Nigerian Farmers, an NGO.

One thing that is good about it is that they prepared me for the assignments that I do. They made me understand our community, the problems of our society and they prepared me better from the point of view of some level of knowledge of what the Nigerian society is yearning for. These assignments have made me to see Nigeria, to travel around Nigeria. I was in the constitutional making body on two occasions. In 1977/78, I was in the Constituent Assembly to write the 1979 Constitution.

In 1994/95, I was again in the Constitutional Conference. These are exposures that prepared one for all sorts of responsibilities and make one appreciate the challenges that the country is facing. So, what they have done is to prepare me for the challenges ahead. Each of the assignments gave a different challenge. The fact of the matter is that you get to some certain positions to see what happens if anybody is coming, what issue is coming from where? Simply, you are removed from being parochial in solving the problems of what would make Nigeria move forward.

Of all the positions, the one that should be interesting is your headship of the farmers’ association because it deals directly with the life of Nigerians. Today, prices of food are so high. Of what relevance is that association to Nigerians, with the soaring price of food items?

One, we deal with members of the society who are actively engaged in agriculture production, in farming. We are beneficiaries of, depending on the side of the coin you want to take, government policy. There is high cost of food, I agree with you totally but the long and short of it is supply and demand. If whatever item of foodstuff required is available and the money is not chasing it, if it is chasing money, in a very simple economic term, the price will be low.

The situation we have now is we are not producing enough to feed ourselves, that is just the long and short of it. There is so little for so many mouths, there is so little for people that want to get and, therefore, the price goes up; but people can reverse the situation by improving our production such that there will be so much for everybody to reach, to get, to that extent the price will go down. The fact of the matter is that over the years, either the policies have not been right or the implementation of the policies has not been right. Or a combination of these two factors negates our attainment of food production level that will keep the country above board. We have failed woefully in producing enough food for this country, yet  we keep talking about a population of 150 million people.

The truth is that we do not have enough to feed the 150 million assuming that is the right figure. Our policies have failed us at this point in time. today, Nigeria remains a net importer of food.

Especially rice!
Rice is just one of them. Rice has become a big problem because of the improvement in the standard of living. Relatively, people get more educated, the middle class improved somehow, urban life is also on the rise, you find that people leave the more staple food like yam, cassava, sorghum, millet and go to rice.

There is more demand for rice but we have the means to get enough rice for this country. Unfortunately, the shylocks that determine the direction of governance make the implementation of government policy for agriculture production to suffer; or each time there is a change in administration, you have a programme you don’t get to implement.

Go to any of these archives or the Department of Statistics in any ministry and see the volumes of White Papers that came as a result of retreats or seminars year-in year-out, government in, government out. So, when I heard Mr. President talked about changing the fortune of Nigeria, that we have got a timeline of about four years in which Nigeria will be self-sufficient in some commodities including rice; that is cheering news. And the thing to now do is to think of how to get there?

So, how do we get there?
Are we going to get there by this wholesale importation of rice that empowers the rice farmers in Thailand; that provides employment opportunities for the youths in Thailand or whichever country that is bringing rice? Or are we going to have policy of containment, so that we begin to know who we are or what we are and have some element of orientation or contentment of what we have?

To me, one, we must produce more, we must empower Nigerian farmers. Any part of Nigeria can produce different kinds of rice if they can be encouraged, if they can get the wherewithal, get the seedlings in time, get the fertiliser in time, get other farm implements in time, get appropriate finance in time, and get extension workers to go and give the technical know-how to these farmers. In one or two years, we can change the fortune of this country.

Why has it been difficult to put in place a structure that can provide all these you talked about?
I believe we can do it if only we can empower the farmers in so many areas. If you empower them on the knowledge of doing things, of funding; with funding, they can mechanize their operations. A guy who is able to till half an hectare of land can now do up to three hectares of land with tractor and their implements. The species should be the type that will make for greater yield.

*Abdullahi Adamu

The technological know-how, how to plant will also help in raising the quantum of yield. There are so many factors that you have to put together to be able to attain a goal of higher yield on the field. We have about 70 per cent of Nigerians  on the farm. Now, if they can be properly empowered, if they can have the funding, technology, input and the infrastructure that will make for mass production on the farm, once we can do this, we are there.

The fact of the matter is that we are not addressing the points that matter for this number of farmers that we have. There is no attraction being in the farm today. If you are in my farm now, I have been there since 1982 till date. But up till today, you build a road to your farm. Nobody is to pay a kobo on it. You want electricity if it can come; I pay through my nose on my farm because PHCN is not there and I have to get diesel – and look at the cost of diesel and how it is going up. You want to add value how do you do it?

Is there any subsidy? No! Because nobody cares. We have those who are just born in the farm. They just find themselves in the farm just like you being on planet earth. They don’t have the facilities; I’m lucky because I can mobilise in my farm; some cannot. So, this is where the problem is.

Do you think non-interest banking advocated by the Central Bank will help in furthering the cause of farmers?

Let’s not digress into this non-interest banking thing. You see, this is one of the countries that I know that the government is shy of subsidizing  farmers; government is shy in grant-aiding farmers. I have talked about voting the kind of money or generating some kind of fund through the Central Bank and making some money available for the farmers. Every small farmer, you don’t have fertilizer, this is the way you get it. What is the policy on land acquisition, how do we do the land reform so that the farmers can have access to land so that you can use no collateral to get some money? Till tomorrow we still have some level of feudal system in agriculture; people who don’t have land they have to till a land that is not theirs for a ratio of their harvest.

How do you get these guys to free themselves and put their capacity to use in their own field? How do you get interest-free fund? How do they develop their cooperatives in such a way that these cooperatives know what problem their members have and so can have some standing fund capability? Why can’t government get back to drive their policy for global agriculture production genuinely?

Now, you are in the National Assembly what should we expect?

We are just beginning. So for, we have screened  ministers and they have assumed office. You need to know the avalanche of draft motions and draft bills that are already in the mill.

Legislation is one thing.  What about the implementation?

What we have is the oversight function of the executive. We will make the laws and we will see what polices will be derivable from these laws and then we see how the implementation goes.

Are you not worried that the state you governed for eight years, another party defeated your party?

I am not happy about it but that is politics for you.

It seems like a vote of no confidence in your party and lack of organisation?
I am not sure it is a vote of no confidence in my party because we have two senators out of three, two-third is more than a credit anywhere in the world. I know we had three before, we have 20 out 24 legislators in the state House of Assembly, that cannot be a vote of no confidence in the party. What we lost clearly is the governorship.

What is PDP doing now about it to regain the governorship?
Politics is not two plus two equals four. We are not resting on our oars. That governorship will come back to PDP. It is just a matter of time, it will come again. We made mistakes and I think we know where those mistakes are coming from, we will address them.

Don’t you think corruption would be a major impediment to the development of Nigeria that you talking about?

I agree with you, the harm that corruption does to a system. I have this strong belief that somehow we have a distorted meaning or understanding of what corruption is. Corruption, embezzlement is one of the aspects. There are corrupt practices that are more damaging because the physical cash being embezzled or misappropriated by whatever means illegally, you can fix easily and if you want, you eradicate it. But there are some corrupt practices that are more endemic.

Dishonesty, for example! When you know a thing is right you don’t do it; it is a form of corruption. When you miscarry justice, it is a form of corruption. When you see deserving cases to address because they are not from your place of immediate interest you denied them, it is a corruption. Tribalism is a form of corruption; religious bigotry is a form of corruption, abusing ethical standards in any profession is corruption. So, what you call financial misappropriation is symbolic of the corruption that is destroying our public system and the worst form is dishonesty. It is the worst form of corruption as far as I am concerned.

How do we tackle that?

If the person seen to have committed a crime is punished – it doesn’t matter if the person is a governor or president or  chairman of a local government or  president of the Senate or speaker of the House – we would begin to make progress. These are just heads. They work in the midst of people. They emerge from among people and every people produce a leader from among themselves, meaning angels produce angels and devils produce devils.

It is as simple as that. It is a philosophy. I didn’t enunciate it. People make in one month, 10 different statements meaning 10 things going in 10 different directions and they are not called to order. This is corruption. Maybe the orientation is not right, then we have to address it. You think it is more convenient to drag matters before the courts, look you straight in the eye, give you a bad name and they begin to hang you. Anybody can do that nonsense.  If I see you as a threat, your image, your reputation, your capacity to deliver is a threat to what I want and I try to pull you down, it is also a form of corruption and they are the worst forms of corruption Nigeria has.

Do you believe the constitutional amendment President Goodluck Jonathan proposes will tackle some of these problems?

I am excited about the talk. There are issues that we need to address and we have all been shying away from them. The big problem we have is corruption. This is one country I know and when you see a problem and you want to take it head-on, they will tell you don’t. You will rather circumvent the problem to do some wayo, go round it.

You said you are excited about the constitutional amendment. What particular issue excites you?
There is one thing we must take another look at. I don’t know any country, that is amending all of the constitution just at one go.

I don’t know how serious we are on this. Take America, we say we copy America, we model our democracy on America. Who can tell you, for about 230 years of the American state, how many times have they amended their constitution? How many amendments have they got through? The problem we have is maybe the constitution we have been parading since 1979 is not so much the peoples’ constitution because I was a member of the Constituent Assembly. When we made the constitution, it was changed by the military.

It is not everything that we agreed that we ended up having in 1979 and even the one we did in 1994/95, it is not all of it. The military sat and changed it. So, truly, we have not had a true constitution that we, the people of Nigeria, authored ourselves. I don’t believe we should take this thing, all of it. If we want to do that we have to go back to constitutional conference. But I  do appreciate that there are issues we need to look ourselves straight in the eyes and face them and tell ourselves some home truths.

Like what and what?

When we get there, I don’t want to jump into that boat yet.

Do you think six-year single term is one of them?

Yes. Anybody is free to bring up a proposal whether it comes from the president or from anybody  whether the idea will be taken or not is a different ball game. We are in a free society, we are supposed to be a free society and it depends on where you are, you can say some certain things and certain rules can apply to you, but if you are in some different point, you begin to ask yourself whether the society is free as we say we are, but whatever it is, I want to believe that we are in a free society and people are free to float ideas.

How do you relate with your successor in Nasarawa Government House?

He is my brother

Have you reconciled?

I  never had a problem with him. Go and ask anybody that knows the politics of Nasarawa State, I  never had a problem with him.

Do you have confidence in the government of the day at the federal level?

Well, I believe we should give him a chance, a fair chance. President Jonathan has a mandate that he can call his own and it is too early to start to assess him. But one thing I like about him is that he has listening ears.

And, the listening ears, is that  is why people say he is too slow?
That is your view. You are entitled to it.