*My regrets in politics

*Says Buhari would make a  difference

Alhaji Isyaku Ibrahim is a politician with a sense of history. In this interview, he takes the reader down memory lane, from the political developments in Nigeria in the first republic, down to the second republic in which he was actively involved, and the aborted third republic.Ibrahim also speaks on the formation of the Peoples’ Democratic Party, PDP, as a pioneer member, the administration of Obasanjo and the ongoing political process. Excerpts:

As one of the founding fathers of the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, what would you say were the philosophies behind the founding of the party?

First and foremost, the philosophy behind the founding of PDP was that we wanted to have a nationhood called Nigeria and because of this nationhood and democracy, that is why we came together from at least 13 political associations to dissolve the associations and become one in PDP, sharing identical philosophy.

We founded PDP because we wanted the average Nigerian to have a sense of belonging regardless of whether you come from a small ethnic tribe or a bigger tribe, at least you will have that sense of belonging as a Nigerian. So, the motive was to build nationhood.

Nationhood! How did you plan to achieve that?

That is the reason we came about zoning because we believed that, in zoning, the six zones in Nigeria and eventually each one of them will have somebody from their zone to become president of this country. If we believe in nationhood, there is a possibility the presidency will go round, though this country is divided into two, we can take somebody from the South-South, South –East or South-West to be the president from the South. Also, there are the North-Central, North–West and North–East zones. When we agreed that our southern brothers should produce the president, the three zones automatically had the right to contest for that position and that is why General Olusegun Obasanjo was the only person from the South-West.

*Ibrahim

From the South-South, we had Don Etiebet, Graham-Douglas and Philip Asiodu and, from the South-East, we had Dr. Alex Ekwueme, Jim Nwobodo. For Dr. Alex Ekwueme, I was involved in his campaign as the Director of the campaign. We all went to Jos for the PDP convention under the late chairman, Chief Sunday Awoniyi, and the convention was acclaimed to be a transparent one and all these people contested and Obasanjo emerged the winner, second to Obasanjo was Dr. Alex Ekwueme at the primaries.

And, of course, Alex Ekwueme stood up and made a powerful concession speech which preached unity and that the party will work together to support our presidential flag-bearer and he was involved in the campaign of Gen. Obasanjo. The whole thing went smoothly because we presented a well- articulated programme for Nigerians, what we were going to do for Nigerians and Nigerians trusted us in 1999 and voted for us because we had a well- articulated system. So, we won in 1999 because they gave us the mandate.

But the party has since missed it.
What happened? Obasanjo came into power and, of course, brought out a committee to articulate the blue-print under the chairmanship of General T.Y. Danjuma and Adamu Ciroma. The programme document was well-articulated and this is what we were expected to do for Nigeria and, had it been we implemented that programme, Nigeria would have been a great country today, we would not have been talking about all these problems – power, energy, un-employment, industry, because everything was covered. But, unfortunately, for me, personally, I have been vindicated by all that is happening now in the country.

Vindicated? How?
Because I knew Obasanjo will not implement that programme and that is why, from day one, I never supported him because of the way he came in and Solomon Lar, who was then the National Chairman of PDP, downplayed a laid-down rule that nobody should contest the presidency unless he wins his local government area and Obasanjo never won his own local government area. So, he and his co-conspirator, Solomon Lar, they wobbled and Obasanjo won.

From the first day, I doubted Obasanjo’s capacity because I know him very well. On the day of his inauguration, he made a promise that power epilepsy would be a thing of history in six months, and everybody became happy.  Up till the time he ended his tenure, after eight years and after spending about $15 billion, no light and no accountability as to where this money disappeared. So, for me, I have always expressed my mind because I am in politics to express my mind, I am in politics to be able to make my own contributions to the development of my country because that is how I was brought up. I have been in politics since 1958 and I can proudly say that I have been in politics for 53 years, and I had the opportunity to work closely with Malam Aminu Kano, he was my mentor and my leader.

Since you mentioned the first republic, what will you say was responsible for some of the problems politicians had then, some of which remain with us today but are worse?

In the first republic, the problem was created by politicians for struggling to be in power, to have allowed the military to intervene. The problem in the first republic had nothing to do with corruption; they were only fighting to have power because nobody ever accused Sir Tafawa Balewa of corruption. When he was killed on Saturday, by Friday, at the close of business, Sir Tafawa Balewa had 25 pounds in his account and the person who was handling his account at the Barclays Bank was Mr. Raymond Hatcher who finally was here in the Union Bank.

So, our leaders were not corrupt and with due respect to Chief Obafemi Awolowo, he was not corrupt and they cared for themselves and for their people. The little which they had, for Awolowo, he introduced free education and most of the people of my generation in the South-West enjoyed free education. So, in the first republic, the politicians created problems for themselves because of greed for power not of corruption.

Being a founding member of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), today it is difficult for one to even say that you still remain a member of that contraption called PDP. Why is it so?

Very soon, I will make a decision

At a time, it was thought you walked out as a member of the Board of Trustees of PDP. What really happened?

I have not been attending the meeting of the Board of Trustees for so many years.

Why?

Let me tell you, first of all, this thing we call Board of Trustees in a democratic setting, there is nothing like a Board of Trustees. Even in the first republic, NPC had no Board of Trustees, NCNC never had. In the second republic under Shehu Shagari, we in NPN, we had what we called Trustees.

Members then included Chief Philip Asiodu, my humble self, Alex Ibru, Usman Dantata and his uncle, Aminu Dantata, they were trustees. May his soul rest in peace, the National Chairman was a member and, from the government side, there was Dr. Alex Ekwueme, who happened to be the chairman of the Trustees and our responsibility, I and Dr. Umaru Dikko, was to be able to source for funds from people and to report to the National Chairman and, of course, to Dr. Alex Ekwueme who was the vice-president. But, in PDP, we created the Board of Trustees.

What was the reason?

The reason was that we came from different political associations and those who were leaders of those associations, you cannot just possibly create something for them. That is how we created this Board of Trustees and we agreed that we would give them responsibilities. We then said this colourful distinguished body should have some functions and we called it the Board of Trustees, but really, in politics, this is a thrash.

No political party in a democratic setting sets up a Board of Trustees.

In 2003, Dr. Alex Ekwueme resigned his position as the Chairman of the Board of Trustees because he was going to contest, then Obasanjo brought Chief Solomon Lar to act, then he became the acting chairman of the Board of Trustees.  As time went on, this position of the Board of Trustees was supposed to be for people from the South-East, normally they should have allowed the people from the South-East to bring at least three people, then we could pick one. They said no and Obasanjo rushed to bring in another person, Chief Tony Anenih.

So, from that day, I decided that I was not going to attend the meeting of the Board of Trustees again.
Having said that, if you are to trace the beginning of the seeming loss of direction of PDP, how would you begin?

From way back in 1999 when Obasanjo started keeping the programmes of the party aside and he could not understand the normal processes of the presidential system. He refused to understand that there are three arms of government, he made sure he hijacked the National Assembly, and the members no longer acted freely as the second arm of government and then he interfered with the judiciary.

So, he was not interested in respecting the three arms of government because Shagari was the first person who executed the presidential system of government and he did it very well because there was no interference with the National Assembly. If he wanted to present a bill or during the budget, he would send a copy of the budget to Senator  Jonathan Odebiyi (of the Unity Party of Nigeria) and, if there is any observation, he should let him know. So, you see that there was this mutual respect for separation of powers and Shagari never interfered in anything concerning the judiciary because there was no cause to start lobbying.

So, Shagari operated the presidential system correctly so that there will be no confusion. But Obasanjo came with a motive and, because he had this military mentality, he could not understand separation of power and that the people in the National Assembly will tell him no, so that was the beginning of the destruction of what we call the real democracy in our country.

Zoning may have been jettisoned by PDP with the emergence of President Goodluck Jonathan as PDP’s flag- bearer at the forthcoming polls.

First of all, Jonathan, I look at him and see him as a man who does not keep to his words and, by his antecedents, he survived by a treacherous act. Obasanjo used him very strongly to get rid of his boss, Alamieyeseigha, and he became the governor. And, during the third term, when we were working against third term, Jonathan was then the governor and he was among the governors who were pro-third term, there was no inclination and he does not understand the meaning of democracy.

Left to him, Obasanjo would have been in power up till this moment and that is why I said, going by his antecedents, I am not impressed. He participated in making some amendments to zoning, he signed it and if not because of zoning, he, as a human being, if we are talking about democracy and politicking being a game of numbers, how can he be a president of this country while there are Hausa-Fulani, while there are Yoruba and Igbo? It is because of zoning and the philosophy, and because we wanted nationhood, so he had that opportunity and when he came in, he said no, article (7C) in the constitution of the party is nothing; he had to force himself to run for the presidency. Even up to the primary, he was contesting against two people from the North, one gentleman and a lady, his people in Bayelsa State did not give anyone of these people one vote, his people voted for him 100 per cent because he is the son of the soil.

Now, we are going to the election, if we are to behave in the same manner, he knows that he cannot win the election against an Hausa/Fulani man with a running-mate of Yoruba extraction. And, that is the philosophy of PDP which gave him the opportunity and he decided to destroy it – if we are to go by sentiments but, for me, in politics, I don’t go by sentiments, I am a Nigerian. I look at you as a Nigerian, if you are good, you are good and if you are bad, you are bad; that is my belief because I believe in nationhood and we must build our country.

With the perceived anger against the PDP leadership in this country, some people have argued that Nigeria might experience a kind of uprising going on in some Arab-African countries like Egypt, Libya and others. Do you foresee such?

There is a possibility if we do not conduct ourselves very well, especially if we can’t conduct free and fair elections. Now, Nigerians are very knowledgeable and know what is happening in Egypt, in Tunisia, Libya, and Morocco and across Jordan where the youths want to participate fully. I hope the Nigerian youths will notice without complaining that this election, if not conducted free and fair, we should not think that there won’t be the possibility of what is happening in North Africa.

So, I hope Attahiru Jega will do his best and we, all over Nigeria, will support him to make sure this election is conducted freely and fairly.  Not because some people in government think of incumbency, incumbency pays if you have performed well, but you cannot enjoy incumbency on your failure, the people will be determined to change and, I am calling on the youths of this country, they know who is going to take them to that land of change among all these presidential candidates, nobody needs to be told, we know who is who.

If you quite agree that what is happening in some North African countries can also happen here, how is it going to happen because it seems Nigerian masses can be docile. Let us take, for example, when Obasanjo came for second term, in less than a week, he doubled the price of petrol and there was a strike and just after a week, Nigerians resigned themselves to fate.

I do not believe Nigerians are docile historically. In 1948, the trade union leaders, Pa Michael Imoudu with his colleagues demonstrated and there was a general strike in this country and there are so many Nigerians who have proved they are not docile. Nigerians can have patience until when their patience is exhausted. We are talking about democracy, the governors, in their respective states, have succeeded in killing democracy.

So, there is a method, if you believe in democracy, you gave these governors power and, now that there is going to be election, perhaps between when Obasanjo left, people were hoping whether PDP will be out, that is why they were patient and allowed him to finish to get rid of him. So, Nigerians are patient, this year, the elections will come, don’t project Nigerians to be docile, we should wait till when the elections in April are over and the results released. If they don’t express their anger to change, then at that time we can have an interview on this. Look, there would be elections. If the elections are free and fair, all of them are not going to come back except very few who had done well in their various states. But they are few.

From your sojourn in politics, you would have had some highs and lows. So, what would you say was that singular thing that made you happy in politics and what you regretted as a politician?

There is nothing that has ever made me regret my participation in politics. I am a politician and I was involved in Shagari’s leadership and I ensured I was one of those people who promoted the government of Shagari. I happened to come from Plateau State and Shagari came from Sokoto State  and, because I believe in nationhood, I looked at his quality, he was a president and within the period of four years, three months, up till the day they overthrew him, there was no single Nigerian in prison yard that was being jailed because he disagreed with Shagari’s government, I have never seen such prisoner. He believes in democracy.

The government was overthrown and I was away for 10 years because I didn’t like the coming of the military government and in my humble word, I call them military junta and I had a magazine (Talking Drum) and, every Saturday, we said a lot things condemning General Buhari’s government and the late Chief Obafemi Awolowo used to have a copy, he even wrote a commendation for us.  But, because I am a democrat, I came back in 1993 when this arrangement of Babangida’s transition came until the election of June 12 and, of course, Sani Abacha came in and we started forming parties and only GDM said no. M.D. Yusuf came back to contest for the presidency and I was the campaign director of his campaign until we got God’s judgment and Sani Abacha passed away. So, in politics, it is about ups and downs if you believe in democracy; if you lose today and tomorrow, next tomorrow may be your day.  That is the essence of democracy. So, if you believe in democracy, you should know that it is not every time you can have your way. The only setback I can think of is I couldn’t participate to make sure democracy is fully carried out.

You mentioned that your magazine was condemning the Buhari military  government. Why? Were you trying to condemn the military or Buhari’s personality?

I didn’t like the military government, that is why I left. It was because of the military government because Buhari happens to be my friend.  I knew him even before his military days and I respect him and like him because of the kind of person he is; we share the same moral ideological philosophy. I had been in politics for 53 years, nobody in Nigeria will accuse me of having misappropriated N10 and the same thing with Buhari, and that is why we share the same philosophy. He is an incorruptible person, decent and that is why when people say Buhari is an extremist, I wonder because Buhari is a product of the Nigerian Army and how many extremists do we have in the Nigerian Army. So, when you say Buhari is an extremist, is it because he worships his God?  Buhari has a good quality and I have been voting for Buhari, I voted for him in 2003, voted him in 2007, I did not vote for the PDP presidential candidate. In 1999, I also voted for Falae not Obasanjo, I don’t carry sentiments, I vote for quality.

Muhammadu Buhari has contested twice for the number one seat of this country and he has not been given a chance. Next month, he is also contesting. Do you see him making any difference this time round?

He will make a difference and what is the problem of people contesting and contesting? I was in Paris and I was one of the supporters of the late Franc Samito, he contested more than seven times before he became the president of France. Now, everybody is talking about free and fair elections, people should defend their votes because this election is going to be different. Anybody who thinks he wants to rig, he must be dreaming.

I know Jega very well and I happen to know his father, I also know where he comes from. Jega’s father worked as a civil servant and he didn’t have a house, the government had to pity him and built a house for him. That is where he is coming from. Jega and the INEC commissioners should make sure this election is conducted freely and fairly because Nigerians now have an alternative. I am advising that everybody should make sure that this election is conducted freely and fairly and I am advising the security agents to work with clear minds because this election, everybody has a role to make sure we make it free and fair in order to have a country for our children because this election will decide the fate of this country.