* Says PDP should reclaim the zoning debate

He was the Deputy Speaker of the House of Representatives between 1999 and 2003, a time when the legislature made useful contributions pursuant to strengthening democracy, insisting on due separation of powers.  In this chat, he talks about the aspiration of President Goodluck Jonathan and brings new insight into the debate on zoning. Excerpts:

By Jide Ajani

The President has presented a supplementary budget to take care of the request of the Independent National Electoral Commission and the figure is N89 billion. Having been a Deputy Speaker of the Legislature, what do you see happening with regards to the National Assembly passing the legislation within the time that the INEC is requesting for?

The procedure of passing amendments to the Appropriation Act, usually, for a single line item like a particular agency of government requiring funding, should not take more than a week. But we must also look at the details of the submission by the INEC. Some people say N89 billion is too high and others say it’s reasonable. But we must look at international benchmarks. Countries like Bangladesh have run similar elections and they are of similar terrains as we are and almost of similar populations. So, we must look at what is the international best practice as obtainable in other countries. We should not pay more for what costs less elsewhere.

*Chibudom Nwuche

Don’t you see a challenge coming up here because the INEC Chairman has consistently maintained that he doesn’t have enough time to do the kind of thorough job we want him to do. The Commission demanding that the money should be ready by second week of August or there will be a dislocation in the timelines he has set out. What do you see happening, should the funds not be ready by this time?

Approving the funds should not take long. I see that being done in a week. Essentially, I understand the importance of what INEC wants to achieve. They want to be sure that they capture the exact number of voters in the country – those who have come of age since 2006 and those people who have passed on. The register must be updated to reflect the actual voting strength in various parts of the country. Nigerians want to elect leaders that they can trust and
we should ensure that their votes do count in elections.

The new Electoral Act as amended by the National Assembly, do you think it’s enough to guarantee free and fair election in 2011 and beyond?

I think that the National Assembly, by the singular act of amending the Constitution this late in the day has vindicated its tenure. This is an exercise that was attempted since 1999. In our own time, we passed the amendments, but at that point, we were not in good terms with the Executive and those things could not come to fruition. But I’m happy that it has finally been done by this Assembly and Nigerians must give them the commendations for that.

The Electoral Act, from what I’m reading so far, I hear that amendments are being made to ensure that elections are free and fair. To that extent, I think that the National Assembly is doing very well and they are taking into account what the flaws were in the past elections and trying to correct them. I hear of innovations like holding party primaries in different locations instead of posting everybody to Abuja in one day. Those things create room for confusion and make things unmanageable.

That presupposes that the old style has never succeeded. You were in this country in 1999 when the PDP held its convention in Jos and even 1993 when the SDP had its convention in Jos and the outcome of those primaries were seen by many as reflecting the will of delegates. What you are saying now by giving support to the new arrangement as proposed suggests that the right thing will be done.  But what guarantees are there at a time when we are beginning to witness the seeming pre-eminence of the governors who are calling the shots and who determine who gets what!  A situation where we have the Governors hijacking everything…?

(Cuts in)  Part of the new policies of the Nwodo Administration in the PDP is to ensure that they create a level playing field for all party members and not allow any particular group of people to have their way all the time.
First of all, allowing cartels or a group of people to determine what happens is undemocratic. Democracy is based on one man one vote and people be allowed to participate freely.

People should emerge based on what appears to be a transparent process and reflects the wishes of the masses because the belief is that people who owe their emergence to the masses would have made commitments and a pact with them in that process and if you have given them promises, you will fulfill them. But when there is no commitment between those who emerge and the popular vote, then they owe allegiance to the godfather who doesn’t have the national interest in the first place and, therefore, Nigerians do not get the benefit of governance.

The party is saying that governors are very important and don’t allow anybody to deceive you about that. They are important because they hold the mandate of the units that make up our federation. Therefore, one expects that when a Governor is doing his job in a State, he is the mouthpiece of the State and people there speak through him. Therefore, you can’t de-emphasize their importance. But there are also other stakeholders too who should be allowed an input into the process. That is why the idea of reducing the number of automatic delegates is welcome.

With the endorsement of President Goodluck Jonathan’s candidacy in different parts of the country, it presupposes that the election is already rigged if the President goes ahead to contest, irrespective of whatever may transpire in the 2011 election?

Nigeria is a free country and the Constitution guarantees the right for people to express their views openly. I know that in as much as we have rallies urging him to run, there are rallies too urging the other candidates to run. So, I don’t see the proliferation of groups calling for Goodluck Jonathan’s presidency as a limitation of the political space. I’ve seen other billboards across the country and everybody has the same chance to make their case. So, I don’t see it as pre-determining the outcome. The outcome will be determined by the INEC. That is why the campaign for Goodluck Jonathan will need to move to the next stage. The next stage will be to now begin to approach Nigerians by those who support Goodluck to tell them that he can deliver.

That should have actually been the first stage because all those who are shouting about his aspiration are just saying he must contest and they’ve not really brought out the real issues or the reasons why they believe his candidacy is going to present Nigerians with a lot of opportunities?

The issue is that in a country as multi-ethnic and multi-religious as ours, it is difficult for people to put the first things first and the last ones last. Some people are enthusiastic and they tend to say run without thinking through what they should be advocating first. But why I support his presidency is that I have known him for a number of years and I know that he means well for the country. I know that he has the capacity to deliver. I know that he will do his best to carry along all Nigerians, irrespective of tribe, religion and creed. He will be a bridge builder and because of the fact that he is committed to building a new Nigeria, he is more amenable to adapting to modern situations. Look at the world over; Presidents who are ruling America and Britain are in the same kind of category – people who are highly educated, who are very cerebral and who are open to new ideas. Once you are in that mould, it is easier to govern a country. Nigeria is a multi ethnic country.

We want somebody who is urbane and somebody who is exposed, who is educated and who is in tune with the times. Nigeria has got lots of talents. All that he needs to do is to identify people who have the capacity and put them around himself because no one man can lead the country. He must work through Ministers and through Advisers and he must ensure that he chooses the very best and knowing him, I know that if given the chance, he will do well. Don’t also forget that he has a track record to judge him with. He was Governor of Bayelsa State for a year and he did quite a lot within that period in the state in the area of infrastructure and in terms of developing the power sector. He was directly involved in the power sector in that state and Bayelsa was one of the states that had constant power supply in the South-South. So, I think that he would try and once somebody is listening and open to new ideas, he is going to do well.

How do you situate the hawks that seem to have hijacked the aspiration of the man? You have E.K Clark who has this bullish approach to this discourse and you have an Obasanjo who people see as capable of polluting the man’s mind. How do you situate them in terms of wider consultations in the polity with a view to ensuring that his aspiration comes to fruition because it should be about negotiation and not about threats?

I must express a contrary view to yours. I think that Chief E.K Clark and Chief Olusegun Obasanjo are prominent and foremost Nigerians who have contributed in no small measure to modern Nigeria. In Obasanjo’s case, I find him to be somebody who is very dynamic. He may be a bit too forceful in expressing his views but he means well; the same with Clark. I think that they are very critical components of the equation because they have substantial followership.

We don’t want people who constantly obfuscate, who go to a meeting and issue a communiqué that doesn’t reflect what they have agreed. Don’t forget that in the same manner you have Obasanjo and Clarke from one side, you also have people like Tanko Yakassai too also from the other side arguing for zoning. These are healthy debates. Nigeria has had such divisions in debates, but ultimately, we have always come together. So, I know that in the fullness of time, all these forces will sit together and agree as one nation. Don’t forget that no President has been able to rule Nigeria without the support of the other parts. So, ultimately, we and our northern brothers will sit down together and discuss in the greater interest of this country and agree on how best to move forward.

The PDP Constitution talks about zoning. Are you saying that the party should expunge the section from the party Constitution? Why not repudiate that agreement and then move to the next phase of what you are talking about now because the agreement was simple and straight – second term for then President to make easier and the next 8 years for the North. Three 3 years into the 8 years of the North, Yar’Adua died and the incumbent took over. Would it not be fair and just based on their initial agreement to allow the next four years again for the person from that part of the country?

I see this as internal PDP matters which the party must seek to resolve at the highest level. If the party sat down and agreed on this, then the party must find a way in its innermost caucus to resolve the issues. In fact, it shouldn’t have been a national debate at all. It should have been a PDP affair. So, the party must reclaim the zoning debate and take it out of the public glare into the party caucus where it should be handled. The party must see Nigerians, whether from the North or the South as one people. I know that ultimately, after all has been said and done, people are going to sit together – North and South – and address this issue. The PDP must as a matter of urgency remove the zoning debate from the public glare and take it to the party caucus.

They must sit down and begin to address it and such feelings of marginalization and cheating must be addressed properly. Don’t forget that in our history as a country, the North and the South South have always worked as a bloc, from the days of the NPC when we had leaders like Dappa Biriye working with Tafawa Balewa. I know that when all has been said and done, we shall sit down as brothers that we are and as strong allies and address the matter. We have always given the North total support and they’ve relied on our zone to secure victory at the centre constantly. So, I know that it will not be out of context some times to expect the North to be the champions of the Jonathan/south south presidency.