….Says ex – Perm Secs, DGs, CBN Directors, bank chiefs and lawyers who front for plunderers ‘should not rest easy’

Femi Odekunle, a professor of criminology and member, Presidential Advisory Committee Against Corruption, PACAC, says contrary to the claim in some quarters, President Muhammadu Buhari has no reason to teleguide the anti-graft agencies.

There’s the belief out there that the fight against corruption is not  institutionalised, that it is being done arbitrarily.

I agree that it  should be institutionalised, more structured and more systemised.

This is because the issue of corruption has been so pervasive and so systemic; it has gone to the roots and we cannot and should not  be seen to be  approaching it in an adhoc manner.

Therefore, I agree that there should be more vigour at institutionalising it and I know that efforts are going on to institutionalise the fight.

One of the items on the mandate of the  Presidential Advisory Committee Against Corruption,  PCAC, is exactly that one.   You know we are not operational, we are not an enforcement agency.   We are like an intellectual  think-tank of academics and intellectuals who are known to be against corruption.

What exactly do  you do?

One of the things we do is to provide advisory to government on the anti-corruption fight.

It is also to  encourage a kind of paradigm shift among the agencies that fight corruption, whether in terms of  equipping them with ideas or enhancing their capabilities or providing them with tools (not  theoretical tools but tools in practical terms to encourage what we are doing), to make sure that people conceive, enforce, educate and deal with corruption in the context of a paradigm shift.

Prof Odekunle

What Nigerians must understand is that corruption is not just like any other crime. It is a crime that is destroying us economically, politically and socially and, because it is so pervasive and  systematic, you cannot adopt an adhoc  approach to fighting it.   It cannot just be a matter for the EFCC or the ICPC or President Buhari alone. It is a matter for everybody.   The fight must be such that it involves almost every facet of our lives.

After all, the corruption in the public sector is just one dimension because there are many dimensions: Have you  dealt with the private sector?   Have you dealt with the banks?   Have you dealt with the professions that collaborate with government agencies in perpetrating corruption.   We are not  there yet but we are making progress.

There is the other issue of the fight being selective, which, in itself, is corruption?

I do not go along with those who say the fight against corruption is  selective.

Look, let me tell you, though I do not have the figures, as a social scientist, I can safely say, in terms of prognosis, that all or most of those who say that the matter is almost over do not know what is going on.   We are still just dealing with a tip of the iceberg.

But those who say the fight is  selective have individuals they point at to make their point?

I do not think that is right.   A bunch of senators are of the APC and they are in  court and the case against them has not been  dropped. The Senate President is one of them, he is in APC and he is in court.

Some people argue that those cases you are trying to refer to are politically motivated?

I’m not here to  contend with that except to make it clear that I  don’t think you have a case where an armed robber or a thief would go to court and  simply plead guilty and say ‘I have done it’.   People will always give excuses when the long arm of the law wants to catch up with them

I do not want to go into that but almost every alleged criminal can  claim political victimisation.   A thief can tell you that the reason for his stealing is because the society is unequal- some have so much  while others do not have and, therefore, he must steal as of right to the property of those who have, so, the criminal justice system that criminalises taking of  property from someone is a political move.   I do not want to go into that.

There is a senator who is supposed to be extradited for certain alleged drug offences in the US. His position is that he is being politically  victimised by either a  former President or his acolytes in the present government.

Those raising such points are trying to  trivialise the fight against corruption by claiming that it is selective and political.

There are many people who were in the previous government who have not been arrested or touched and there are people in this government who have been indicted. Look at the SGF, he has been suspended from office.   The NIA DG, who is a professional,   has also been suspended from office. I’m just trying to say that the fact that you belong to  another political party or the previous government does not mean, automatically, when they accuse you of an offence, it is political.   After all, there are a lot of people who belong to that government who have not been accused.

I maintain, that my prognosis, personal, and has nothing to do with PACAC, is that the fight that is going on now is for the soul of Nigeria, and those who believe that they have  escaped, as former Perm Secs, former DGs, they should not rest easy because it is going to get to them.   Whether they are Directors of the CBN or banks, it will get to  them.   Private  sector individuals or lawyers who take fake fees and collaborate with criminals and claim that millions found in their accounts are legal fees, it will get to them.

Remember this problem  didn’t start today.   It has taken decades, so, the fact that out of maybe 1,000, we’ve gotten only 10, means that the depth of the problem is deep but, over time, the system is going to catch up with them.   If this fight  goes on, it would reach most of those who have been ruining this country.

But there are questions as to the steps taken, the quality of prosecution. And isn’t there something to it when people from the outside insist that the fight is  selective, yet those inside say it isn’t?

That’s what Ive just tried to explain.

I do not believe that President Buhari or Vice President Osinbajo and some people will congregate in Aso Rock and say let’s pick ABCD and forget EFGH.

No.   It has to do with the low – hanging fruits.

When the whistle-blowing policy started, more revelations came up.

What is the number of the staff available  to the ICPC or the EFCC?

What is their budget?

And these, relative to the pervasiveness of corruption, not just yesterday but for decades?

You cannot deal with everybody at the same time but whoever you take, the accusation will come that it is selective.

Talk to the prosecution challenges?

You also have lawyers who are beneficiaries of this system of corruption, going by the  humongous fees they charge and receive, minus the fact that some of them are  fronts, in terms of laundering the money for corrupt people, claiming that they are legal fees.   These matters will take time to get into.

If  you have 1,000 people to arrest and prosecute, and you  don’t have the resources to do it, you start from A, B or C.

Okay, for instance, how come some people who were in the previous government have not been arrested either because they have not been reached or there are no cases against them?

But even  the ones that are in court, people are skeptical about the quality of the prosecution. Most of the case have fallen on their faces.

I do not agree that it is most of the case.   There was one week when the government lost about four or five cases temporarily and they have been appealed.

This is one of the fundamental things that people are not appreciating and I’ve said it many times that one of the misfortunes or the hoax of the legal  system we inherited, is that attribution of arbitrary equality to people who are substantially unequal  economically, socially and  politically: If you stole a goat or you burgle, it is easier to deal with you.   But when you steal from public purse, and because the victimity is diffused, it’s not direct against any individual, it is more difficult to deal with.

There was a case of a justice and I’m aware that the government does not have the experienced lawyers to actually do the prosecution. When they give out these cases to experienced lawyers, a lot of the experienced lawyers refuse to prosecute on behalf of government.   They are ready, behind the scenes to give counsel, but they will not come in the open and help.

A respected SAN, whom we all know, who we believed was on our side in this activism, when I saw him defending the  justice, I became shocked.   That shows you the  relationship in the upper echelons of the legal profession and even in law enforcement.   And these relationships do not exist between them and the common man who stole a goat.

Let me ask you, for how long have we had corruption in Nigeria?   For how long have we known that it is killing us politically, economically and socially, compared to the thousands of cases of armed  robbery, kidnapping and the likes, yet nobody has even suggested death penalty for corruption – but we are quick to suggest death  penalty for armed robbery?