In an exclusive interview with Sola Ogundipe and Chioma Obinna, the State Chairman of the Lagos State Chairman of the Nigeria Medical Association, NMA, Dr. Edamisan Temiye calls to question the relevance of governance and state government’s credibility on the issue of agreements. Excerpts:

WHAT is the latest on the impasse?

Members of the House Committee on Health came Monday Last week and they came mainly because of the actions that are taking place in the federal institutions. However, on Wednesday, May 23, 2012, they came back and they eventually met with the Lagos State Government. After meeting with the Lagos State House Committee on Health, they eventually met with us here (NMA Secretariat) and that meeting lasted till about midnight.  There was some understanding that was reached at that meeting and they were supposed to go back to the government and get back to us. They got back to us on Thursday evening and from what we got from them, we felt that there were some positive developments.  However, by Saturday, What we felt was a positive development has disappeared. So we are back to square one.

Can you be more specific?

Between the house committees, the House of Representatives, the State house committee, the medical elders who are also politicians and us, having heard from the government, we were able to iron out a lot of differences that was between us.  Issues were laid on what are the true positions of things agreed upon. That caused us to write an agreement with them.  Then, we wrote a letter to the governor to intervene and stop what was going on and they took the letter to the governor. From the report they gave us, we were expecting a positive response from the Lagos State government.

In fact from that point, we lowered our guard, we were expecting a solution latest by tomorrow, Monday, May 28, 2012, but to our amazement, by Saturday, last week what we heard from government side was an attempt to water down what had been agreed upon, an attempt to take us back to us back to what we have rejected before.  So up till now, we have not heard anything directly from the government. As far as we are concerned, we are back to square one.

Dr. Edamisan Temiye, NMA, Lalgos chairman

Governor Fashola said he has no power to hire and fire. How do you view such statement?

I think we have heard that he said he is not involved in hiring and firing. To my mind, it is an abdication of responsibility.  No Governor in the developed countries will ever say that kind of a thing because it can lead to the removal of that Governor.  We are running a system called executive presidency. The Governor is an executive Governor.  When a Governor now starts saying that he has no power over those who are under him, whom he appointed, then we are in trouble, deep trouble. One of the national dailies editorial said it all today, there is no governance in this country. Corruption is ruling and the country is falling apart and the Governor is sitting down and the people he is governing over are dying.  And he said he has no power over the people he appointed to help him run the government, then, we are in deep mess.

 The doctors were accused to have insulted constituted authorities, how true is this?

I was not there at the meeting but you will know that this government has engaged itself in so much blackmail that it will be difficult to know what they are saying again. I have seen people who have explained to me what happened at that meeting. I don’t think anybody insulted anybody.  There may be one on one discussion with one person or the other in a word that is raised but that does not mean that somebody insulted the system. The government is finding a reason why they will not act.  They are finding a reason why they want to call black white and white black.  This matter is simple, if somebody insulted the system, there are procedures to take.  What has brought this matter up is that they are transferring a labour issue to civil service issue because they have planned before hand what they wanted to do to destroy the civil service structure in Nigeria.

A lot of labour people feel unconcerned. If this passes through, the civil service structure and the labour service structure we have in Nigeria as we know it today will disappear in the next one year. Our governance is dismantling the system so that they entrench themselves and continue to fix on the people. What drives people out of the country to seek asylum is corruption, mis-governance and authoritarianism. That is what we are witnessing today.

What do you say about a situation in which government will go into an agreement, renege and enter into another agreement and renege? 

This is what the medical profession has been going through in the hands of Lagos State Government since 2010. And that is what has led to this crisis. Now, the government has abandoned that, when you ask them questions on the agreements they dodged it. Ask them how much you are paying the doctors, they dodged it. Did you or did you not demote these doctors, they dodged it.   Did you not wipe the years of their service? They dodged it. Did you not wipe six to seven years of their service, they dodged it. T

hey actually made publication that they are paying figure for figure, money for money, when they know that they are not doing it. When a government behaves like that and when it loses truth and it starts embellishing mistruth with falsehood as gospel truth, then, you start wondering what governance means, whether there is any contract between government and governance, whether the workers are slaves and could be treated anyhow.  The action of the government, the way I see it, is pushing us back to the 17th and 18th Centuries.  That is where we are going and I hope those in government pull back and bring us back to the 21st Century so that we have mutual respect and when government says something we will really believe immediately that they are going to do it.  When there is mistrust, there is big problem in making advancement in governance.  The government has engaged in a lot of blackmail.  Pulling back from agreement or denying it and then using other extraneous and unimportant things to explain the action, that is worrisome to me.

There have been allegations that Governor Babatunde Fashola walked out of negotiation meeting.  How true are these allegations?

Well, to some extent, I will tell you that he did not walk out. He truly excused himself and said he had other meetings he wanted to go to.  But because of the experience we had before with the people he was referring us to then, and he is referring us to again now, then, we knew he was not ready for a solution. I will say he was not ready to take a decision and he is still not ready to take a decision but yet he excused himself.

Cut in: I think he advised that the doctors should go and appeal and that they will now sit down to consider the appeals.

I don’t know anything about appeal and I don’t know whom the doctors are going to appeal to. At this point, you will quiet agree that the crisis has lingered for too long, now you will also agree that the crisis has also affected the medicine profession.  Again, patients are being denied the right to health, don’t you think there is need for doctors to shift ground a little to allow peace to reign?

I don’t know what you mean,  but if I am a free born of this country and you want to enslave me and I say you cannot enslave me and you are now telling me to go and put the chain on my neck then you are the one whom wants to kill me. What the Lagos State government is doing today is to actually destroy the medical profession and we will not allow Lagos state government to destroy our profession.  In fact you will be surprised at the anger of other doctors in other places who are not in Lagos. It is not only the medical profession they are going to destroy, they are going to destroy the civil services structure. People don’t see it. The press are not looking at it.

Violation of labour laws

You are not seeing the document the state government is working with and you turned your eyes away from it, it violates all the labour laws in the land. It is because they want to implement that document that the sack came.  You are looking away from that motive and why the government is difficult, that is one.  Number two, you are looking away from a situation a group of people have entered into different agreements separately on almost the same issue for two years and that government has failed to implement it.

Some of your colleagues are taking appointment with the Lagos State government. How do you view such action?  You threatened to sanction these doctors, what kind of sanction are you planning? Again, the issue of locum doctors, while the government is claiming that it is a global practice, the NMA is saying is casualising the profession, what is really a locum employment?

Have you seen the document on locum? (Displaying the locum document) I am surprised that Government is saying such thing and you did not go and look for the document that is a surprise to me.  You should have gone to look for the document and read it

Just last weekend, State Chapter of the Association of General and Medical Practitioners of Nigeria, AGPMPN, drafted about 1,200 facilities to offer free medical services to card carrying patients of the Lagos State hospitals, what is your take on this?

Let me tell you something, the person sitting by my left is a member of AGPMPN and his facility has not been drafted. By my right is an AGPMPN member his facility is not involved.  Actually, it is a political gimmick.   The person sitting close to you is also an AGPMPN member; his facility has also not been drafted.  If in my executives that I have three out of 9 AGPMPN members, you know that there are some people doing some things that are not right.  We are also aware that those facilities have also failed to offer free medical services.   That patients who have seen the advertisement and had approached those facilities, find out that they have to pay for the services rendered to them.

Politicalstatement

What of patients who are not in Government care at that time who have not obtain card at that time that now need medical care? So when they go there are they going to pay?  That includes somebody who has just had an okada accident and he is rushed to some of these facilities and he did not have card before.  So you could see that, that is not the kind of services that is going to help the people. It is just a political statement.  Have you the press approach any of them?  We have had report s of people going to the facilities to obtain services and after services, they say sorry you have to pay, it is not free.  What I am telling is that those who have used their cards to receive services there have been asked to pay fully not part for the services rendered.

At what point should a doctor embark on strike?

At the point which he felt he has been frustrated, he had been ignored and insulted. At that point he can embark on a strike.

What is the way out of the crisis?

There is a subsisting agreement that Lagos State government has not denied.  As a responsible, responsive and democratic government they should fulfill that agreement. And because it was that agreement that led to all these actions, since it was the government that failed to fulfill that agreement, they should move back to the point where they showed evidence that they are not going to fulfill that agreement.  Because they should move back to that point, they should recall all the doctors they have sacked. Once they do that there are no issues anymore.  And of course, this paper, (waving the Lagos State document on locum) on locum doctor should go to the trash bin because that is where it belongs.  It was used in 17th Century and it cannot come out in 21st Century again.

The public has continued to suffer, what is your message for Lagosians?

They have a government. They should go back to the government and say why are you doing this to us?  Why has the Government of Lagos State decided to be punishing the citizenry of this state? They should ask them questions.  Our people don’t know how to ask their government questions.  The government is not above them.  The people put them there to serve them.  They should ask them why are you doing this and why do you want to denigrate a profession?   Why do you want to push a profession down and destroy a profession?

Why do you think that the best solution is to sack a massive 788 doctors at a go? Why do you think this is the solution to your not fulfilling agreement you reached with them severally.    You know that people are afraid of government and they think that the people they should harass and push down is the doctors.   The doctors are already down.  There is a song that says: “He that is down needs fear no fall”.

So we are already down we don’t need to fear to fall.   So we are fighting from down.   The people too, they are down.  They need fear no fall. So they can also ask pertinent questions and they should demand an answer.  Why a Governor should say the people under him sacked 788 doctors and he knew nothing about it. And he cannot reverse it for the good of the society?  I think it is important to ask those questions from the government.