Former Head of State, General Abdulsalami Abubakar(retd) recently had an audience with Journalists in Minna, Niger State during which he spoke on Nigeria at 60, problems facing the country, the role of the citizens in Nation building, fighting corruption, and security. He among others kicked against another Constitutional Conference, saying that it would be a waste of time. Instead, past recommendations should be dusted for implementation.

FIRST I congratulate ourselves for coming this far since Independence 60 years ago. Since our independence, Nigeria has been through ups and downs.

There has been a lot of happenings in the country, after the independence, there was a coup in 1966 and there was a counter-coup. Then the military came into power and since then it had been one thing or the other.

Of course, during the military incursion, we could see a lot of infrastructural developments that took place in this period and in 1999, there was a change and then, a civilian democratically government came to power.

We thank God that for the past 20 years or so, it had been Democracy with elections taking place to the extent that a sitting government was ousted during the election.

Well, 60 years ago is just like yesterday. As I said, all along, there had been a lot of developments.   We have seen how Highways were constructed in the country, then we had the fortune of having oil discovered in Nigeria and that had been a major source of foreign exchange for this country.

And also, in the discovery of oil, there were some related problems that took place in the process with some people in the Niger Delta scrambling for their own part of the benefits of the oil.

This agitation during my government made us to give them 33 per cent of the revenue which was allocated to the oil-producing states in the federation. That brought some semblance of peace in the area and we could see some development in the process in the area.

Politically, things are stabilizing now. Initially, during the military regime, especially during Babangida’s tenure, two political parties were set up and that gave the ground for the birth of democracy in the country.

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We are witnessing Nigeria at 60. You were there when Nigeria attained independece. Would you say you are satisfied seeing the country where it is now?

You always hope for the best. I will say, so far, so good. We have come a long way, I think we have our ups and downs, the intervention of the military and incursion into politics is one issue that will keep vibrating in the history of Nigeria. All said and done, since indepence, I will say, we have gone a long way.

Of course, with the coming of independence, there are some problems. Remember that before independence, basically, there were three regions, autonomous regions in the country and there was a keen competition at that time to try and see how each region can develop itself.

That was the time the oil had not been discovered. Our revenue earner was farming and in the North, there was the groundnut pyramid, in the West, you have the cocoa while in the South you had the palm produce.

By and large, I think that we have had our ups and downs and hope that as we continue as a Nation, things would continue to improve.

What areas do you think Nigeria needs to work upon to attain greatness?

First and foremost, we must be a disciplined society. It is very unfortunate that there is still indiscipline in this country. People don’t obey rules, they do not obey orders, they flaunt anything you can think about but first, you must impose self-discipline. Because there is nothing the government can do besides making rules and regulations and it’s not the duty of the government or it’s not nice of the government to start chasing us up and down to make sure we do the right thing.

Nigerians should do the right thing. It is the citizens’ responsibility to abide by the regulations and contribute their own quota in governance. Take the simple example of Traffic light. How many people obey traffic light? How many drivers obey the law, how many drivers make sure that their vehicles are in order? In order for us to be great, we must impose self-discipline, we must make sure that we help ourselves to help the Nation to move forward.

Economically also, we should stop sabotaging the little the government is doing to ensure the economic viability of the country. In Niger Delta, a lot of oil and gas pipes are being sabotaged, people are doing illegal bunkering.

The government  itself should try as much as possible to provide everything necessary for the citizens to engage in economic activities because the government cannot employ every one of us. Government must provide power, road infrastructure, and in farming, it should assist the farmers by bringing fertilizers, insecticides and others so that we can make life easier for the people in the country to earn their daily bread.

Also, on security, I think it is unfortunate that in the last couple of years or so, we have been engaged by an insurgency including Boko Haram, kidnapping, armed robbery and others. No nation can prosper under this condition.

Now as Nigerians, we can assist by exposing all the miscreants in our society because they live with us, we know some of them, so it is our duty to trust our security agencies, to make a report to our various security agencies so that these miscreants can be arrested and dealth with.

Government should do it’s best to deal with the miscreants and send them to the law courts so that they can be tried and if found guilty, they should be dealth with acvourding to the laws of the country.

Coming back to citizens’ responsibility, we must try to maintain as much as possible what the government is providing. For example, for electricity and power, it is alarming that you find people who go about doing illegal connection of power.

People don’t pay their tax, they don’t pay the fees they are supposed to pay and at the same time, we expect the government to perform miracles and wonders. These revenues and taxes are part of the revenue generation that the government use to develop the society.

Politically, the citizens should be aware of their responsibilities. They shouldn’t sell their votes and when they elect politicians to represent them, they should hold their members accountable and responsible to deliver what is expected of them.

They should desist from posing insecurity and being used as vandal to attack people. It is our responsibility as a people to do the right thing. If we do the right thing and all hands are on deck, we are on our way to being a great nation.

There has been the argument that Nigeria achieved a lot in the past than now. What would you think is the best type of Government for Nigeria. What would you say about the agitation for the division of the country?

Before independence, we have had a parliamentary system of government but after independence, Nigerians thought we could do away with the parliamentary system and decided to go for presidential. We found out that since we went into the presidential system of government, it is a very expensive system. Whether we should go back to the parliamentary system of government is left to us to come together, think and decide.

We have moved from three states when we had independence to 36 states. There are agitations and everyone wants to be a nation on itself. You have the Oduduwa, IPOB, Irobi, Tiv etc, everyone wants to have a state of one’s own. To me, that is not the answer. I think we have passed that stage.

What I think we need to do is to sit down and think how we would work as a nation, how there would be more equity and justice. As we move forward as a nation, how do we make sure that there is equal representation in all we do and also how do we disabuse the minds of Nigerians on this issue of religion and dichotomy of trying to split this country?

One thing we should take note of is that there is an advantage in unity. Nigeria is being seen today as the biggest black nation in the world and I believe this way, we can make an impact in world politics and we have a bigger voice in maintaining this leadership.

When we try to split this country, we just become a nonentity, our voice will not be heard. As I have said, we can make Nigeria great by ensuring that there are equity and justice and to make sure that there is equal representation as we move ahead.

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People have been yearning for a constitutional conference in order to address the problems you highlighted. One was held towards the tail end of Goodluck Jonathan administration and up till today, what they agreed upon have not been implemented. What is your take? Do you think we need another constitutional conference?

The issue of nation-building takes time, it’s not a matter of conference. You put another Conference, what are you going to discuss that hasn’t been discussed? If you look into the archives, there are a lot of things that were discussed and recommendations made, how many of these recommendations have been implemented?

And if we sit down again and start talking all over again, how long will it take us? To me, I think the government, our legislators should go back to the achives and sieve these recommendations and implement them.

If we go back to any Conference, there is nothing new that will be discussed, everything have been discussed, the solution is there, it is left for us to see how we would implement all these.

If you ask me how to go about implementing all these, I will say we are now in a democratic country, we have got parties and members of various parties representing us in various places.

If we can all get together and try to implement some of these decisions, I don’t think there is any need for any conference again. Maybe some people will think otherwise but to me, I think it is just the implementation of some of the recommendations and decisions that had been taken.

Do you think Nigeria as a country still maintains its status of the giant of Africa, especially looking at the security challenges, politically and otherwise? Secondly, from Independence to date, looking at the developmental achievements of this country, between independence and date, which of the administration, Military and Democracy have achieved more?

It depends on which side you are coming from. I don’t think we should say there is a competition between the Military achievements and that of the Civilian. Whether in military or civilian, achievements have been recorded.

The military has made some achievements, the democratically elected government is building on that achievements. The only difference is that in democracy, you spend a lot of time discussing before decisions are taken and if decisions are taken, the implementation is another thing. While in military, you have a Commander-in-Chief who just gives directive and ensures decisions taken are implemented.

And if they are not implemented, the organization involved will be dealt with summarily. But in Democracy, you have to make sure you carry people along.

The problem with politics always is that even when you are in a ruling party, you have the problem of  dissidents within the party and you have to contain them within your party and you also have to reckon with the opposition party.

So, we would not be fair when we say let us compare the achievements of the Military with that of Civilians. Of course, when you ask me, I am a military man, and I will say the military has done quite a lot.

Without doubt, look at the highways for, instance, the military constructed, they are all dead and gone. It’s a nightmare now to travel on our roads.

As giant of Africa, despite our problems in the nation, I think we still command a lot of respect in the continent and we can do more and the only way to do more is for all of us to put our hands on deck to ensure that we do the right thing.

Many Nigerians are seeing Nigeria as a failed Nation.  What will you tell Nigerians who are saying that Nigeria is a failed nation? Secondly you have been noted for peacemaking, everyone was expecting blood to flow at the just concluded Edo election, but it didn’t happen, Ondo State election is coming soon. What is your advice to Ondo State people?

It takes two to tango. When you say a nation has failed, what causes that failure? You point accusing fingers at the government but who is the government? It’s me and you and what we have contributed to trying to make the so-called failure.

As I said earlier on indiscipline, have we done our citizens’ duty? Are we obeying the law of the country? Are we paying our taxes? Is it the government that is bringing insecurity?

It is the citizens. To answer your questions, yes, Nigeria has problems, there is insecurity, there is economic problem and so on but does that make us a failed nation in a true sense? I will say we have problems, are we on the way to being a failed nation?

It depends on which side you are coming from and where you are looking at. I agree a lot of things could be done better. If we as a people are having a feeling that we are becoming a failed nation, what are we doing that is making us a failed nation and what is it that we should do to get out of this bad perception? To me, Nigeria is not a failed Nation.

About peace, is it the Government that is causing the breach in the peace? It is Nigerians. Our children, our brothers, our sisters, our wives, our husbands   are the people who take machets and weapons to kill each other because of political linage.

The government will always preach don’t do this, don’t do that, do people listen? Again, the politicians, are they listening? They are our leaders, but they are the same people who incite these citizens, who arm these sects to go and kill themselves.

I think for the sake of ourselves, it is absolutely necessary we maintain peace. As you said, we thank God Edo election has come and gone and I am sure we have learnt some lessons and I believe that the peace we saw in Edo election will be replicated in Ondo State.

Nigerians are getting wiser, and the wiser they become, they know it is the citizen and the nation that loses when there is no peace. You go on destruction trail, after the election and everything have been done, the little you find to help you use in developing your state or nation, you now use that fund to repair the damages done.

So it is absolutely necessary for all of us to realise that peace is mandatory and without peace, there will be no nation, without peace, nothing can be done.

Farmers can’t go to the farm, Journalists won’t be able to snoop, nobody will be able to do business and we won’t be able to sit down here and talk. We hope Nigerians will give peace a chance and it is absolutely necessary that there must be peace in the country.

So for the Ondo election, I will speak to our political leaders to do what late Waziri Ibrahim said- Politics without bitterness. In politics, whether you are in government or opposition, you are serving the government. When you are in power, it is your duty to govern and if you are in opposition, it is to make sure that you monitor the party in power to ensure that they do the right thing.

So one way or the other, all of the politicians are serving the nation. During President Jonathan regime, it was PDP that was in power and APC was at the neck of the then government to ensure that the right thing is done to the extent that during the election, we saw the defeat of the PDP. Now that the PDP is in opposition, it is the job of the PDP to ensure they monitor what the APC government is doing to make sure that they do the right thing.

There are fears especially in the political cycle as we approach 2023 that the country may break if the presidency is not taken to the South. Do you go with this? Secondly, you mention the agitation in the South-South and the effort you put in. The NDDC is riddled with corruption, how do you think the present government can salvage the situation?

On the issue of governance, I think we should leave them to our politicians who have decided to seek our mandate. Let us not delve into the affairs of politicians. Of course, it is our duty to find out what our politicians are doing, and assist them to lead us alright.

Of course, politicians will make all types of noise before the 2013 election, what noise did people not make before the 2015 general elections especially that if the then government in power was not re-elected, Nigeria will see doomsday? But that didn’t happen.

So the issue of whether there is rotation from the North to the South to East or West is neither here nor there. The politicians have their rules and regulations, let us hold them to the rules that they do the right thing.

Regarding NDDC, we are talking of corruption, it is unfortunate, very unfortunate. You know very well that these are one of the ills of society. Wherever you go, in any profession, you will see corruption and I think it is high time all of us addressed the issue of corruption. It is in various forms and rearing its head everywhere in the country. It will do us a lot of good to put an end to it and make our contribution to ensure that we fight this cankerworm.

VANGUARD