Faced with renewed pressure to engage more Niger Delta repentant youths and determine how long the programme will continue in view of the benefits it has brought to the region and its people, the Special Adviser to the President on Niger Delta Affairs and Co-ordinator of the Presidential Amnesty Programme, Charles Dokubo, a professor of international affairs, says only the federal government has appropriate answers to the two crucial questions.

Special Adviser to the President on Niger Delta Affairs, Professor Charles Dokubo

Dokubo spoke in an interview with Soni Daniel, Northern Region Editor, in Abuja.

Excerpts:

What have you done differently since you took over the mantle of leadership at PAP?

What I have done differently is quite clear. Before now, delegates were just trained and allowed to go but since I came into office, I have tried to ensure that delegates are given jobs after their training. Also, the nature of training has also changed in the sense that we are now providing a lot f vocational training centres in the Niger Delta so that our people can easily go and acquire basic skills that can make them to be self-sustaining and stop depending on anyone else or even the government and be able to live a decent life.

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How many people in the Niger Delta have you been able to train since your appointment?

I have trained no fewer than 3500 out of which 800 have been placed on relevant jobs. It is not easy to get jobs these days but because of the nature of the training we have given to them, the trainees were able to get jobs after their vocational training.

Is it the training of Niger Delta delegates that took you to the US recently?

The fact is that this office has a lot of delegates in the United States of America and many other parts of the world and we need to cater for them and keep in touch with them to know how they are faring and coping with their studies so that they are monitored and mentored to finish well. And for me, a place like the U.S, where there has been some uproar about their stay there and those who have finished or have not finished their courses, we needed to go there to verify, clarify and authenticate those who are still students under our care and those who are not. We need to know how the Nigerian Embassy is helping and working with them to excel. We pay a lot of money to these students and we need to ensure that they end well and not just waste the government resources. I went there to see if they are still in school and if indeed they are justifying the resources that Nigeria is expending on them monthly. There were reports that some of them had finished and were doing their own business but they still do not want to leave the programme so that they can continue to enjoy government money. So, we had to go there to ascertain many of these things.

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When you talk about training and reintegration of delegates, does it mean that it is therefore compulsory that all the people you train must be employed?

There are some trainees we need to give starter-packs once they complete their training. This is because no government can provide employment for all its citizens. What the government does at best is to provide an enabling environment so that business can thrive and allow the trainees to work for themselves. That is why is why we are giving those we train starter-packs and even rent shops for them at the end of their training. We want to see them to have functional business that can give them a lee way in life.

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When Amnesty was declared by the Federal Government on June 25, 2009, it was to run for three years. However, since government started paying stipends to over 30,000 Niger Delta youths under the scheme, the programme has come under immense pressure for new intake and it appears to have become a permanent job for the boys. So, if I may ask, when will the programme come to an end?

I want to say categorically that I will not subject myself to any speculative terminal date for the amnesty programme. It is within the purview of the Federal Government to decide when it will end. They started the programme and they are the ones who will decide when it will end. I only continue to do the work I was given to do.

You seem to be in a fix not being able to develop a database to truly capture the accurate number of delegates but merely paying N65,000 monthly to 30,000 delegates and as it now appears, the number does not reduce despite deaths and those who gain employment through training and provision of starter-packs by the PAP?

Just like you have noted, my concern has been that the number of delegates has remained static at 30,000 since the inception of the programme. The question to ask is what has happened to those who have died and those who have been given employment and starter-pack to start their own business? And, if somebody has been given employment can’t that person be removed from receiving monthly stipends? These are the questions I asked when I arrived and I went into the data to see those who have been trained. If tell you what I discovered it would shock you that some people have been trained up to five times by the PAP and on the other hand, those who have been given the contract to train the delegates have also done some harm to the system. Most time, you give the trainers people to train and the people will rather want to negotiate with the trainers and collect the money rather being trained for them to have a means of livelihood.

So, there is a certain culture that has affected the Niger Delta and disturbed any rational thinking Niger Delta person. So, what we have done is that we have tried into the database to see whether it is truly reliable or if it has been tampered with. If not, we should not still be catering for 30,000 by today. We need to take a closer look at the data because nobody can continuously pay such money to people in perpetuity. Look at what happened just because I came into office: more than 500 students who were not part of the programme and not captured by our database, were sent out to universities across the world but as Niger Delta indigenes I had to absorb them and continue to cater for their school fees while their parents pay for their upkeep so that they don’t suffer.

But what in specific terms are you doing to truly reintegrate the ex-combatants into the society?

If you have truly followed this programme, it is a three-pronged programme- Demobilization, Demilitarization and free Reintegration. We are now at the third phase of reintegration, creating jobs and building back collapsed society so that we can bring back our people and give them jobs, which is even the most critical aspect of the programme. No other country in the world has run an amnesty programme of the length that Nigeria has so far run. It is always a fixed term, short in nature and with expressive goals. This programme was designed as home support and home grown and that was why it was initially set up for three years and when the government was about to wind it up and even reduced its budget they realized there were some unfinished business and they had to keep it running.

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You recently raised a panel to probe the looting and vandalisation of the Kaiama Skill Acquisition Centre, which was a multi-million warehousing centre with vital empowerment tools. What has come out of the probe and where is the report?

The report is out and already submitted to the office of the Inspector General of Police. Anybody who wants to find answer to that should go there. The report has clearly identified those who have cases to answer in relation to the incident and those who are to be prosecuted for the offence. I will not want to say more than that on that matter.

When you went to the U.S, there was a report in the social media that you ran away with N32 billion to stash away. The report also claimed the NSA is the one protecting you and teleguiding you on what to do? How do you respond to these allegations?

I am surprised that you asked such a question. Look, let me tell you that I have never seen N32 billion in my eyes not to talk of carrying it since I was born. In any case, if someone was to carry such money, where would the person put it and by what means would the person carry such amount of money? Who in his right mind would carry such amount of money and what would the carrier of such money explain to the country of destination and for what purpose? These are mere mischievous concoctions and fabrications by those who want to destroy the Amnesty programme because they have failed to achieve what they wanted to use it for. They are also desperately trying to drag the name of the NSA into the programme. The truth remains that the NSA does not dictate to me or teleguide me in the running of the PAP. They are all liars and trying to create needless conflict for their selfish gains. I run this office on laid down principles. Let me tell you, I know how much I get monthly to run this programme and pay school fees and stipends. So, I don’t know how the amount of money can ever accrue to this office within the one year that I have stayed here.

Let me say that I did not appoint myself but the federal government did. Whatever the Federal government decide to do with me is not anybody’s business. My concern is that let the truth be told to power. We must speak with truth at all times and I am doing the job with the best of my ability. I will continue to do my work for the country and not listen to gossips that add no value to Nigeria and the Niger Delta people.

There have been renewed agitations for new persons to be captured under the PAP? Is there any other window open for such new repentant militants?

Like I have said, it is the duty of the President to order any new inclusion into the programme because that would also come with budgetary expansion. It is the government directive that I follow in running the programme. As you can see some states that have carried out state-based amnesty programme, want their people to be captured under the programme but I have always told them that my hands are open to train but the Presidency must order that. Some of those who did not initially believe in the programme are now seeing its success and are now coming to enroll in it. I am a Niger Deltan but I don’t belong to this programme. Many other Niger Deltans who are not captured on the database can benefit from it.

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There are claims that some amnesty students are stranded abroad due to non-payment of stipends and school fees. Why is this so?

That is not true at all. If you look at it very well, nobody who is under the PAP sponsorship can be stranded. This is because we pay this money to them as and when due. The federal government has been very religious in releasing allocations for their payment of the school fees and stipends to the youths and there is no reason whatsoever to delay or withhold the payment to the beneficiaries.

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