…No basis for recession but for wrong signals, comments

..What Igbo lost to Jonathan Govt

..Igbo must learn from civil war mistake

By Clifford Ndujihe & Yinka Ajayi

Professor Anya O. Anya, 80, is primarily a biologist but he is at ease with politics, governance, law, economics and administration among others. The pioneer chairman of the Nigerian Economic Summit Group, a key player in the Vision 2010, Vision 20-2020 roadmaps and the 2014 National Conference was literarily shooting from his heaps in an interview with Vanguard last Wednesday in his Lekki, Lagos home. In no holds barred fashion, he gave reasons the Igbo must learn from the mistakes of the civil war, why Nigeria must tackle injustice in the country and why President Muhammadu Buhari must go the extra mile to give Nigerians good governance because integrity and passion alone are not sufficient.

Former President Olusegun Obasanjo, recently rooted for the Igbo to get the presidency in 2019. What is your take on it?

Sensible Igbo have to look at the advice and the source of the advice. We are in 2017 and in the situation we are in the country, we have to look at what may happen in 2018 before talking about 2019.

Former President Obasanjo is a man that you cannot ignore in Nigeria. He has done a whole lot of good things and he has also done things you have question marks over. So, you cannot ignore his opinion but the way I look at it, 2019 presidency is not important now. There are more serious issues; 2019 may not be the way we think it should be

How will you describe the state of affairs in the nation?

It has not been good. I would urge you to go back to the interview I granted Vanguard in 2014 because some people called me a prophet because most of the things I warned about came to pass. The truth of the matter is that the first time we wanted to correct the state of affairs, we went 20 years back to dig up a former military leader in 1999; after finishing eight years, one or two people came in between. We were given another opportunity, we again went back to 30 years to dig up another former military leader.

So, there is something wrong with our country. It either means that in 30 years we have not moved at all or that in 30 years we have regressed. But I don’t think that we have regressed, I think a lot of work has been done be it good or bad in the last 15 years of democracy. It also shows that our countrymen are not sure of what they want. It is that confusion of not knowing what to do that makes us think that the past is better than the present.

From right, Admiral Allison Madueke (rtd); Dr. Felix Oragwu, (author of the book), Admiral Ndubuisi Kanu (rtd), Chairman of the occasion and Prof. Anya O. Anya during the book presentation.

There was no basis for this recession, if the word of mouth of our leaders had not called it into being. In 2014, Nigeria was regarded as one of the emerging economies that had to be watched. In 2014, it was said that $14 billion was heading for Nigeria if certain conditions we were looking forward to roll out were met. In 2016, the foreign investment that came was around $700 million!

It was the word of mouth like nothing good has happened in Nigeria, everybody is corrupt that affected the investment in-flow. In any country, you accentuate the positive, condemn the negative and punish those that step out of line. As we speak, you have not punished those that have not done things well. Security agencies ought to operate in covert operations and not on newspaper columns. They should be operating so quietly that you won’t know until investigation is completed, evidence is full; and when they take action people would see that not only have they worked but also it would be clear because the evidence is there

In other words, are you saying we have not had change since President Buhari emerged?

We have changed but from the people I have spoken with, they are all complaining that this is not the change they bargained for. But then I ask them, did you define the change you wanted?

So would you say Nigerians made a mistake for clamouring for change?

It is not a matter of mistake. I am a scientist, the evidence of today and yesterday is clear! But what is more worrying is that there is nobody that is confident that what is being planned will solve the problem.

In the last four weeks, Naira has been on the upward swing against the dollar, don’t you think progress is being made?

I will also remind you that a year ago, it was under N200 to a Dollar and when this administration came in it was between N150 to N160 to a dollar before it got to three times what it was under one year. Naira is appreciating but it will stabilise at perhaps at a point that will double what it was a year ago.

We are worth less today than we were two years ago and with the inflation rate that is chasing 20 per cent, remember that in the last four to five years inflation rate was single digit.

But President Buhari’s supporters say that there is hope because the president has integrity and is fighting corruption

I have sat with President Buhari to discuss the affairs of our country. There is no doubt that he has passion for Nigeria but passion is not sufficient. When he came on board in May 2015, in August, I gave the Professor Eni Njoku lecture and I gave him what Management Science has shown have been applied to run a multi-cultural, Multi-ethnic and Multi-religious society. A month later, I gave the Chief Emeka Anyaoku lecture, which I titled: ‘Nigeria the continued search for leadership.’

Standing on what I said at the Eni Njoku lecture, I gave him more advice based on what he has done. If I didn’t mean well for him, I won’t say the things I had said. I share his passion for Nigeria but that passion should be backed by solid hard work. He needs experienced people to work with him. You cannot find the people that will make the difference only in your family or ethnic group. You must cast your net wide to get people who will give you loyalty beyond even what your family can give you. That is the real test of leadership.

There is a book I want you to read. It is titled: “Born Orphan.” It is a story by a German theologian, who was executed during the Second World War. That book tells you the history of Nazi Germany. People forget that Adolf Hitler actually won an election, he was an elected leader but by the time he finished, he destroyed Germany. But I know Nigeria would not be destroyed because inspite of everything we have reached a point where certain things cannot be reversed. I think Nigerians and particularly those that work with President Buhari should read the book to learn the lessons that Germans should have learned.

What is your take on alleged marginalisation of the Igbo and agitation for Republic of Biafra by the Indigenous People of Biafra, IPOB?

I am the President-General of Ndigbo Lagos. I was the chairman of the committee that organised the last Ohanaeze election. Igbo should know that in the situation we have in Nigeria, we will always have a problem until certain structures and issues are taken care of. So, we should then work for that. We should also know by asking ourselves certain difficult questions. Why is it that people love and hate you in equal measure? While acknowledging the achievements of the Igbo they also hate them on the other hand. Therefore, we need to interrogate ourselves and solve certain problems that will enable us navigate our way in Nigeria.

I have raised an important question that nobody is talking about. The Igbo need to answer that question before moving forward to decide what they want in Nigeria. In 1964, Eastern Nigeria was the fastest growing and industrialising economy in the world. I stumbled on the data and made it public in a lecture in 1974-75. In other words, in 1964, Eastern Nigeria was in advantaged position in Nigeria.

In 1964, there was a problem between the North and the West. There was no problem between the North and the East and also there was no problem between the West and the East. How come that by the time the circle went round the Igbo were now at the centre of the Nigerian problem to the extent that there was a pogrom? Out of that pogrom came the war.

Obviously, once you have pogrom, it became difficult for leaders to appear reconciliatory. Your people cannot be killed and you appear to be seen to be looking for peace when the other people have not even said ‘we are sorry. So, it is difficult for any leader to negotiate.

But the central question is: Do you go to war at a time when all the advantages were in your favour? If the answer is no, then, did you explore the alternative ways of handling the crisis? History suggests the answer was no.

If the Igbo would be honest to themselves, we will learn the mistakes we made in the past so that we can avoid them in future.

Of course I will join in the call for the release of Mr Nnamdi Kanu (IPOB leader). If you kept him in prison for 100 years, it will not solve the problem. However, what is happening in the Niger Delta now and the circumstances that forced them to start looking for alternatives to deal with Niger Delta tells me that sooner than later they will start looking for alternatives to deal with the Igbo.

Nnamdi Kanu and others did not witness the civil war but they are reacting to the situation in Nigeria. Until you address the injustice in Nigeria we will be wasting our time. It is not only the Igbo. There is no part of Nigeria that does not have a problem.

In one of your books, you talked about what the Igbo lost under former President Goodluck Jonathan. What do you mean?

In 2013, two years after former President Jonathan won the election, he did a very interesting thing. He told his kitchen cabinet to give a summary of all they did in the last two years. Talking about projects they did and the ones money was provided for. When they finished, they discovered that the North-Central had N495 billion committed to it; the North-West where his political challenge was had N395 billion committed to it; the South-West had N215 billion; the South-South had N212 billion but remember that the South-South had the Ministry of Niger-Delta Affairs and NDDC, even if he (Jonathan) didn’t provide anything more, there is already enough commitment going there. That of the South-East was N74billion.

In other words, Igbo land did not have up to 1/6th of what the North Central was getting; they didn’t get up to one-quarter of what the North-West was getting; Igbo land didn’t get up to one-third of what the South-South and the South-West got. Even an area that did not do well as the South-East got more. And yet some still refer to the Jonathan administration as an Igbo government. When I got to know about this development, I made contact with President Jonathan.

Being the first most educated President of Nigeria, his major disadvantage was because he schooled in Otueke, Bayelsa State and got his tertiary education nearby in Port Harcourt. So, there was no way he would have built up his network within the complexity of the Nigerian system. With wide network, it means if you are to address the problem in one section of Nigeria, you will know somebody in that region that will enlighten you about it. But I thought he was brilliant enough to learn on the job.

To keep the appointment with Dr Jonathan, I went with Chief Emeka Anyaoku to see him. The first thing he said was that his government was Igbo-centred but I told him that the data we were working with showed the contrary. We gave him one or two advice on what to do.

What were the things you told him?

First is the nature of his job, in any country there is what we call established men, they are the ones that define the goal of the nation, they define what is in the national interest. They also define the important values. They sketch out boundaries for nations and such people don’t hold offices. By the time a man gets to such stage, such a man can look back and beat his chest that he has left the society better than he met it.

They may not be at the purview of the public but they exist and it means you have to look for them because they have experience. You cannot attract them with anything. You don’t appoint them, they are people that when things gets tough, you call them for advice, you also encourage them to discuss among themselves.

In the United States of America, for instance, people may not know this, there are almost seven people who are not in office but it does not matter which government comes, their views shape the government. Nigeria does not have it.

At my level, I should no longer be concerned with the affairs of the Igbo alone knowing that if we have a good system in Nigeria the Igbo will be taken care off. The Igbo do not want anything special than what Nigeria wants.

At this level, I should be more concerned with the larger picture. There are certain challenges in Igbo land that most of us are called upon to give advice on that we ought not to have anything to do with. The next crop of leadership should already be in place. I clocked 80 on the 3rd of January, there are things that I should not be involved in again in Nigeria. The two major things that consumed my time in the last four to five years were that I was the chairman of major companies in Nigeria, and also the Pro-Chancellor of a University. I want to now engage myself to motivating people, and particularly, paying attention to the youths by educating and lecturing because there are so many brilliant people in Nigeria, I want to be putting them together and start pointing them to the future. Developing a country is no longer a rocket science, the things to do are known and the kinds of leaders that can do them are also known.

What do you make of the recurring high level of violence between herdsmen and farmers in the country?

There is a spiritual dimension to where we are presently as a nation and there are issues that are beyond our understanding and capacity. It all comes down to our value system. If we were running the system correctly we ought to have had a Nigeria with wide system of values. But we have not created a system where Nigerians can interact freely to know what others have, those values should be formed based on the things we can do and the ones we cannot do because our diversity can be our strength. We are in a dangerous situation when ethnic values collapse because the youths in the village move to the urban areas, nobody is controlling them any longer. In the village, when you do certain things elders call you to order but in the city they fend for themselves and respond to the difficulties they find themselves in.

The problem President Buhari has presently is that we all agree that among our leaders, he is the only one you cannot fault in terms of his integrity but that is not sufficient. Buhari must walk the talk. He cannot surround himself with people that can’t give him bad news. He has to surround himself with people that can draw his attention to the good, the bad and the ugly in the society.

You clocked 80 on January 3, what is the secret behind your youthful look?

It’s the grace of God. The other thing is that I see the good in people and I emphasis the good. I have a memory that does not remember the past especially if the past is not pleasant. That is why for me, the last passage in the Lord’s Prayer that says ‘give us this day our daily bread’ is my mantra. So I don’t worry about tomorrow because God already assured me of taking care of my daily bread. So I am grateful.

What would say your saddest moment was in the past 80 years?

Sincerely, it is difficult to recollect the saddest moment in my life. One or two challenges came at a time I just prayed to God about it and God answered my prayer. This was in the University of Nigeria, Nsukka, back then. The matter went to the point that after the council settled it, they apologised to me and a letter was written to me apologising for the false accusation. I cannot say it made me sad because I didn’t know where it started from.

What was the accusation?

I approached the Federal Ministry of Agriculture and I was given a grant to run a workshop on an area important to agriculture and it was a very successful workshop and when we finished we rendered an account and the people of the Ministry of Agriculture were satisfied. But one day the Vice Chancellor woke-up and wrote a letter tagging the workshop as a fraud and accusing me of embezzlement of funds. The matter was resolved in my favour by the Governing Council and the University was asked to apologise to me.