Mr. Olu Daramola, SAN, was called to the Nigerian Bar in 1993, thereafter, he joined the Chambers of Afe Babalola & Co in November 1994  after a brief stint with Tayo Oyetibo & Co. His areas of specialisation include commercial law, maritime law, intellectual property, banking, taxation and aviation.

He was admitted into the inner bar in 2008. In this interview he spoke on the bill asking for  immunity for the legislators, discipline of judges and the roles of lawyers in ensuring an egalitarian society and the controversial outcome of the Nigeria Governors’ Forum election.

Excerpts

There is a bill pending before the National Assembly seeking constitutional  immunity for legislators, just as it is obtainable in case of the executive. What is your take on this?

I am just amused. It shows that the National Assembly members are more concerned with protecting themselves and not the people who elected them. The question is “what are they afraid of?”

While I concede that some public officers such as the President, Vice President, Governors and Deputy Governors ought to enjoy immunity so as not to be distracted, I believe the immunity should not extend to breach of code of conduct. There is no reason why a governor who is involved in graft while in office should enjoy immunity.

The immunity should only cover cases where the public officer committed the wrong but acted in good faith. A governor who is stealing or diverting public funds for his own personal use cannot be heard to say that he acted in good faith.

One of the remedies for breach of code of conduct is removal from office but it is unfortunate that the courts have interpreted the immunity clause in the constitution to include cases arising from the breach of code of conduct. If you say that a president or governor enjoys immunity from cases arising from breach of code of conduct, how do you remove such a person from office when he or she is no longer occupying the office? I think the courts merely interpreted the letters of the law rather than the spirit.

What do you think should be the role of lawyers in creating a better Nigeria or a corruption-free society?

Honestly, there is very little lawyers can do to stem the tide of corruption in Nigeria. Mind you, a lawyer is a professional plying his trade to make a living. Corruption affects all strata of the society and there is very little lawyers alone can do to stem the tide. You need political will to fight corruption. I doubt if you can point to any country in the world where lawyers alone stopped corruption. What lawyers can do is to aid the government in the fight by supporting measures put in place to attack the menace.

*Olu Daramola, SAN

I am aware that many lawyers have been involved in campaigns against corruption but unless the government takes the battle seriously, nothing can be achieved. Imagine a school where the principal and most of the senior teachers are very corrupt, one teacher shouting against corruption in that school cannot achieve anything. He may even be framed and victimized. If you have a government that has zero tolerance for corruption, everybody would sit up and tow the line including public servants, lawyers, doctors, engineers and so on.

Section 273 of the Administration of Criminal Justice Law of Lagos State, 2011, provides that an application for stay of proceedings in respect of any criminal matter brought before the High and Magistrates’ court shall not be entertained until judgment is delivered. What is your comment on this?

It is not fair, because a person who ought not to be tried in the first place may be convicted. He may even have served the sentence before he succeeds on appeal. But again, you must consider the abuse to which application for stay of proceedings has been subjected not only in criminal matters but also in civil cases.

In Nigeria, once you are charged to court, your immediate response is to file any objection, no matter how unreasonable. Once the objection is refused, you file an appeal and an application for stay of proceedings. No serious judicial system can tolerate this. I believe that Section 273 of the Administration of Criminal Justice Law of Lagos State, 2011was introduced to address the mischief of using application for stay of proceedings to frustrate criminal trials.

We even have situations where an accused person will refuse to appear in court, but an objection will be filed on his behalf. Once the objection is refused, an application for stay of proceedings is filed. I think that an accused person who refuses to appear in court is a fugitive who should not be allowed to bring any application before any court of law.

I am also of the opinion that a stay of proceeding should only be allowed in exceptional cases where the interlocutory appeal raises a novel or an important question on which there is no appellate decision.

What then will be your recommendations to solve the recurring issue of delay in adjudication of cases in our courts?

There is a need for all stakeholders, that is, the judges, lawyers, and litigants to recognise that justice delayed is justice denied. Courts should sit on time and should refuse frivolous applications for adjournment. The government must create enabling environment for the judges to work.

By this, I am referring to regular supply of electricity to the court rooms, provision of air conditioners in the court rooms, recording facilities and judicial assistants should be appointed to assist judges in conducting research. I believe one of the reasons why Nigeria is not attractive to foreign investors is that they lack faith in our judicial system due to delay. No foreign investor would want to invest his money in a country where it will take up to fifteen years to resolve a commercial dispute in court.

In Singapore for instance, it takes just about six months to conclude the hearing and determination of a case in the high court. The appeal will also not last for more than six months. If the case turns out to be frivolous, heavy cost is usually awarded. But in Nigeria, a person who owes billions will rush to court knowing that if he eventually loses the case, he will pay little or no cost.

One of the reasons why corruption is very rampant in the country is the delay in adjudication of cases. Most of the cases of corruption proffered against governors who served between 1999 and 2007 are still in court. In many, trials have not even commenced.

In line with new High Court of Lagos State (Civil Procedure) Rules, it is now mandatory for plaintiff to seek preliminary settlement before approaching the court for redress. What is your take on this?

It will not achieve much in decongesting the courts. It will only elongate the dispute. When the Pre-Trial Conference was introduced in 2004, many thought that the process would decongest the courts but almost ten years after, the complaint is that the process has contributed to delay in hearing cases at the Lagos High Court. Most cases were filed in court because attempt to settle the case amicably failed. Therefore, asking the parties to begin another round of settlement discussions under the supervision of the court will achieve nothing.

Just recently, the National Judicial Council (NJC) recommended compulsory retirement of two judges namely, Thomas Naron and Charles Archibong on ethical ground. How do you see this exercise?

I must confess that apart from what I read on the pages of newspapers, I don’t have the full details of what led to the judges’ compulsory retirement. I only read the allegations against them as reproduced in the newspapers but I don’t know their defence before the National Judicial Council.

However, I think it is a welcome development for erring judges to be sanctioned. This will show to the general public that judges are not above the law. A judge must uphold the highest ethical standard in order to sustain the confidence of members of the public in the judiciary. The judiciary can only be the last hope of the common man if judicial officers are above board.

Some of your colleagues have said that poor remunerations for judges may be responsible for corruption in the judiciary. Do you agree?

I agree with them. Poor remuneration is responsible for corruption in public service. A judge like any other person has responsibilities. He wants to send his children to good schools and live in a good house after retirement. Unless you pay him well, he will be tempted to be corrupt.

In the UK for instance, you are not likely to hear of any judge demanding bribe from lawyers or litigants. The reason is not because judges in the UK are inherently good. The system under which they work creates an enabling environment for them to work and live well. In the UK, once you are in any employment, you can take a mortgage of between 3% and 5% interest to buy a house.

In Nigeria, properties are sold on cash and carry basis. You cannot get mortgage loan of less than 20%. So unless you have cash to buy a property, you may never own a house in Nigeria. The reason why public office is attractive to many people in Nigeria is the opportunity for self-aggrandizement and not the legitimate emoluments attached to the office.

How do you react to the fall out of the controversial election of the Nigeria Governors’ Forum, NGF, that produced two chairmen?

I think it is a shame that we have a forum of 36 governors and an election was conducted but they could not agree on who the winner is among them. There was no allegation that the election was rigged because they know the number of those who voted.  According to them one person got 19 votes and the other got 16 votes and the person who scored 16 votes declared himself the winner.

So, it is a shame on the country. What we have in this country is civil rule and not democracy because civil rule is different from democracy.  It further shows that these people that are ruling us do not understand what democracy is all about. If 36 governors cannot conduct election among themselves in a country of 150 Million people that is a serious issue.  They have just exhibited that they dont believe in democracy and they are not ready to practice it.

I think we can then begin to query the election that brought them to power. If Governor Jonah Jang that has been unable to solve the problem in Plateau State wants to be the leader of governors forum, it is sad indeed.