*Legislators should always stay out of scandalous  situations-  Ogbeha

By Chioma Gabriel, Deputy Editor
Senator Tunde Ogbeha is a retired General from Kogi State and one-time military administrator of Akwa-Ibom State. He was elected Senator for Kogi West Senatorial District from 1999 – 2007, and  was chairman of Water Resources Committee of the Senate.

He is an influential figure in Kogi politics and in this encounter, he answers questions on legislative face-off with governors, the Electoral Act amendment and 2011 general elections.
Excerpts:

Elections are approaching and several  issues are cropping up; crises here and there and there is fear these problems could affect the dateline of elections and handover date. What do you think?

I don’t think there is any cause for alarm. As far as we are concerned in the PDP, the handover date is sacrosanct and there cannot be any reason to postpone elections. As you say, the polity may be heated up and some of the issues that are on ground are weighty but there is no justification to begin to think of postponing elections. The issue of stolen Direct Date Capture machines cannot affect elections. The chairman of INEC has equally said that this issue will not affect INEC or the work.

Really, I want to think that those who stole the machines didn’t understand what those machines  were. Even if they do, I don’t think they have the software to operate them. What I suspect is that they have stolen those machines with the intent of selling them  back to INEC. What we have noticed in this country is that some of the things stolen in the Ports or Airport (as in this case) are taken back to the open market for sale and I don’t think it will have any effect or impact on the election  process.

Before this stolen DDC issue, there was a court order stopping the contract for the importation of the machines and that order has not been vacated.

I don’t want to comment on the court order because, I’d rather believe in what the chairman of INEC said. He is the umpire for the elections and we look up to him because he is saddled with the conduct of the elections. If he says that is not an issue, well, we should look up to him that he will conduct the elections as much as possible in a credible  way, ensuring free and fair elections which is what we are looking for.

Your party, the PDP postponed the last NEC meetings due to the problems involved: legislators Vs governors and NEC of parties. What can you say about this problem?

It is obvious there is crisis in the party but it is being resolved and I think the postponement of this meeting was to allow for contacts and interactions that would enhance decision-making  with the view to resolving the issue. Thank God, the dream of legislators to become automatic members of the NEC of their parties was resolved by the upper legislative chamber and I’m sure this will enhance decision-making.

I don’t think there will be further crisis in the parties after this because what could  have caused problem across political parties have been resolved by the senators. No party would have problems over this. You know, PDP is a very large party and you could imagine what the NEC of  PDP would have looked like with all the legislators.

Another reason for crisis, especially in PDP is the largeness of the party. There are more people attracted to PDP and there is this belief that if you  have the ticket of the party to contest election, half of your problems as a candidate would have been solved. So, these crises are there. It’s a test of the leadership of the party in resolving problems and I think that would  be done  amicably .

But this is the first time the legislators are having  serious issues with governors bothering on power tussle to control the party machinery.

I want to correct that impression because there have always been issues between governors and members of the National Assembly right from 1999. It is not limited to PDP. It is across the board and there are issues of  legislators wanting  to do governors’ job or governors wanting to do the job of legislators. These issues come up from time to time but when it degenerates, it causes problems.

It is not only a PDP thing but across the parties. They have severally tried to do legislative jobs and there were always protests. What makes this particular problem peculiar was legislators wanting to become automatic members of NEC of their parties which if they had succeeded, would have reduced the power of the governors at the NEC of parties, but that has been resolved now.

The National Assembly passed the amended Electoral Act on Tuesday and there is this belief that certain things were smuggled into the amended Act to reduce the number of delegates to the parties conventions.

The legislators cannot smuggle anything. I know the issues are not fully resolved and that was why they had this cooling off period  to enable contacts and resolution process to take place. Before the next  NEC meeting, some of these issues would have  already been  resolved. Some of them are mere speculations. It is impossible to have all legislators as NEC members and even  if select legislators are to be brought in, members of the party have to agree to that.

Are you saying all members of the party have to agree for legislators to become NEC members?

We have leaders. There is the BOT and excos. Leaders take decision. We have given them the authority to take decisions and that is what obtains. If you don’t like the decisions taken, you are free to protest. That is also why we have the Conflict Resolution Committee of our party.

Why does the party want to cut down on delegates to primaries when the president allegedly want more of his aides to become delegates?

We don’t know yet. The party has not taken the overall decision and until this is done, nothing is  for sure. If the Electoral Act is amended to have reduced delegates, it shall subsist. Once something is a law, it is a law but I’m not sure about aides of the president becoming delegates. That has been jettisoned.

What do you think of IBB threatening to pull out with his supporters if zoning in PDP is not implemented?

I read the papers. There is something going on in the polity but the argument will exhaust itself. Once elections come and go, people will concentrate on nation-building. I don’t want to dabble into the court ruling on PDP’s zoning. Primaries are going on and whosoever Nigerians decide on emerges candidate at any level. In as much as protests are part of the process of elections, Nigerians should not overheat the polity. We must all collectively ensure free, fair and credible elections. INEC has promised Nigerians credible elections and we must support INEC in conducting that.

But if the parties are not doing things right they can frustrate INEC.

That is  why I said Nigerians should ensure hitch-free elections. Politicians who are members of political parties are Nigerians. But you must know that as long as democracy is allowed to subsist, people are free to express themselves through protests, through placard carrying and  petitions but what we are saying is that even these placards, petitions and protests must  be peaceful. We should not expect things to degenerate into chaos.

Constitution amendment, Electoral Act and being NEC members of political parties are volatile issues across parties, not only in the PDP.

We have to ensure we get close to a perfect situation if we don’t have perfection. What I am urging political parties to do is ensure that whatever protests, petitions or voices of dissent prevalent in their parties don’t go out of hand. All Nigerians across parties should ensure that credible people are elected, good governance is enshrined and development is brought to the doorstep of the people.

I don’t see problems with the forthcoming primaries. Everything will be sorted out. We should not prejudge issues. Legislators should stay on the side of the people. They should always go with the side of the majority and avoid scandalous situations that could pitch them against the people.

Finally, what do you think of the CBN Governor’s allegation on 25% overhead against legislators?

I don’t have the facts  to contest it.

The governors are holding PDP NEC hostage, says Farouk Lawan

Alhaji Farouk Lawan is three-term member of the House of Representatives. He is a  PDP member representing Bangwai/Shanono Federal Constituency of  Kano State. He was the Chairman of the House Committee on Finance and currently Education.

Lawan led the Integrity Group that opposed Etteh during the financial scandal against her. He is currently aspiring for the number one executive position in Kano State.

What’s this issue between legislators and governors ; NEC of their parties and Electoral Act?

Whatever you  have observed is simply democracy in action. As far as the National Assembly is concerned, we don’t really have any problem at all either with our party or the governors. What happened is that some members of the National Assembly decided to amend the Electoral Act to provide among other things, for members of the National Assembly to become members of National Executive Committees of their various parties.

And apparently, that has not gone down well with certain elements in these political parties. And since we are practicing a democracy, it is only proper for the members of the National Assembly to listen and  where necessary, reason  with the voice of the majority.

But for the governors, I think their opposition stems from what they see as an attempt by members of the National Assembly to erode their influence on the political parties. Right now, they hold the NEC of the PDP hostage because they provide most of the members of the NEC and virtually lord over the decisions being taken by the NEC. Now, if the National Assembly members become members of NEC of their parties, that will dilute their  hold on the NEC and it would erode the powers of the governors.

That is what the governors are fighting against. Actually, I have no sympathy for the governors and I’m not supportive of  what most of my colleagues are doing in their bid to become members of the NEC of their parties. I think democracy involves various organs, various contributions, certain procedures and guidelines on how to manage their affairs. In this case, I believe there is a procedure of becoming a member of NEC and that is the decision of the party. Institutions of democracy should help in nurturing and bui
lding our democracy.

The Senate has expunged  certain portions of the amended Electoral Act, what is the deal with the governors and party leadership?

I don’t know if there was a deal or not. But what was important like I said is  the demonstration of the tenets of democracy, where the Representatives included certain provisions and the Senate decided that such provisions were not properly accepted  by the public. The Senate therefore, responded to the public pressure and decided to expunge that. If you ask me, that is the National Assembly directly taking control of issues that involved  them without recourse to the executive. Now, that is democracy in action. That is the National Assembly legislating against  what it perceived as the oppression of the political party.

Why was NEC meeting of PDP postponed ?

What caused the postponement was to afford us the opportunity to resolve all the differences as it concerns the governors and the NEC. The essence is to have a smooth NEC meeting by resolving the differences first before the meeting. But one thing I want to make clear is the fact that whatever problem existed between the governors and the legislators is normal. PDP is a very large party and rumpus like we had recently is natural because of divergence of opinions. There would be very strong positions that would lead to disagreement but the PDP has a fine way of resolving these matters and that has always been the way it is.

Would you confidently say the issues have been resolved?

I believe so because after the NEC meeting, it is expected that a common ground would be  used to resolve the issues. We have absolute confidence that the matter would  be  resolved.

What is the situation with the order of elections as against the primaries of the party?

It is reflected in the Electoral Act  we have just amended and it is clear that the National Assembly elections come first, the presidential elections and then, the gubernatorial elections. It is the duty of the National Working Committee, NWC, to make a proposal to NEC because that is where the final decision comes from on the order of the elections. It is the responsibility of the NWC to draw the attention of the order of elections and whatever decision reached by the political party is what will be adopted.

Recently, the National Assembly has been in the heat over other  issues beyond the  Electoral Act, like 25 per cent overhead spending and other  frivolous allegations. How do you feel about fingers pointing at legislators for selfish doings?

I don’t know  what you mean by being in the heat of the storm but the truth is that the National Assembly has always been the punching bag of various public commentators. Some months back, there was a strong issue in the UK against its legislators. So, it is normal for the National Assembly to receive hard knocks but what is important is that it is necessary for the national Assembly to continuously look inwards and determine whether truly, their action and inaction is negatively affecting the Nigerian people.

I believe we are elected to serve the people and we must always have that in mind. That also means we should base all our decisions on the proper moral  standard because when  we come short of this and Nigerians feel bad  and decide to vent their anger, we should take it in good fate and use it as a basis to evaluate ourselves and do the proper thing.

We must also realise that we can take an action which has not gone down well with certain elements and they can use it to campaign against us with the sole intention of smearing us but the national assembly must always take popular opinion serious. I also believe theat whatever the national assembly has done wrong in the process of  legislating, they should make amends. The national assembly must always toe the line of public opinion and do things properly.

Why did the House refuse to re-admit the suspended members after the court ruled on that?

They are back. I’m not aware they were stopped from entering the chambers because I saw some of them and even exchanged banters with them. They were all there. None of them was harassed. I’m not sure of the fact but  after the initial problems, I think the House might have decided to let things be. Whatever happened initially must have been in line with the earlier disposition of the House on the court ruling but I don’t think its still an issue because they were all there in the House. The court order has been complied with.

In other words, there is no fear that this time, it could be the national assembly that would scuttle the elections?

The elections are not going to be scuttled. I believe that in 2011, we will get things right in this country. Since the advent of this democracy, our elections have been characterised by rigging and all manner of electoral malpractice, from 1999 – 2003, to 2007. I hope and pray that in 2011, we will get it right. It is important for us to do because the responsibility for a stable democracy depends on all of us. So, the national assembly or anybody should not allow itself to be used to scuttle elections.