APOSTLE Anselm Madubuko is the founder/senior pastor, Revival Assembly, Ogba, Lagos. In this interview with SAM  EYOBOKA, he speaks of preparations for his church’s 8th annual conference tagged Azusa beginning on Wednesday and other national issues.

Can you state briefly how you came into ministry?
I didn’t want to be a pastor. I graduated as an architect in 1982 from the University of Nigeria, Nsukka. Along the line when I got saved, I knew that was the end of my practice but I did not want to accept it because I love to design and all that. The Lord spoke to me to start this work. I wanted to be an evangelist but I did not go to Bible school. I didn’t know anything. So I did not know what to preach.

So, I ran from the call. It got to a point that I could not run any more. On December 16, 1990, the ministry was inaugurated. Even after it was inaugurated, I did not want to give up my profession because I was not sure if it will work and there was no assurance that my wife and children will be fed. So, I kept my profession. After three months it was glaring I cannot keep both. God spoke to me and said ‘you can’t trust me to take care of you’? With time things got sorted out and became much better.

What is AZUSA all about?
AZUSA is actually an Indian word, that means blessed miracle and the story is actually interesting. Many years ago there was a young Indian girl God used to heal an old chief. The chief regarded the deed as a blessed miracle and started calling the girl AZUSA. Then in 1906, there was a revival on a street called AZUSA Street in California, USA through one blind eyed man called William. It’s amazing how that same AZUSA came to be the street where God chose to visit. That revival touched the whole world. AZUSA is simply a reminder that the church needs a revival.

What are your expectations for this year’s event?
We want to rekindle the fire of evangelism in the heart of God’s children and to send their hearts after God like never before.

Most revival services focus on material blessings. Why are you focusing on reconciliation?
We are not here because of material things. We have to call the Church back to why we are here. We are here to know God. We are here to be used by God, especially in the area of evangelism. Right now, evangelism and commitment are like things we no longer talk about in the Church. It’s all about ‘my miracles, my this, my that!’. God wants to send a revival in our hearts that will rekindle our love for Him. Our love for Him is what gets us to work for Him and do the things that are pleasing unto Him. That’s my passion.

My passion is to see the Church work for Him more than ever before. God has done a lot for us; we are saved. We can’t buy salvation. If in 1983 when I got saved he gave me a brand new car, today I will not be driving that car again because it will be outdated. What He gave is eternal, and that is what we should give everybody and not physical things. God looks at the things of the spirit. All this doesn’t make sense or have any meaning to God. If you are busy for God, He will bless you because He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Are you saying pastors should not focus on prosperity?

No! That is not what I mean. It’s part of the Bible, but they should not lay emphasis on prosperity. Prosperity is important. We need to pay our bills. God will take care of those things because the scripture says, “My God shall supply all my needs according to His riches in glory in Christ, Jesus”.

I’d like to see you as Nigeria’s gospel ambassador to eastern European countries. How has it been?
That’s my place actually. My heart is in Russia. My heart is in East Europe because I see what God has done and the hunger in the people and their desire to serve God. The response and the evidence of the gospel is fantastic.

Does your frequent trips affect the church in any way?

I’m not just an apostle because I like the title. That is my assignment. An apostle is the sent one. I’m sent by God to build the people up. The pastoral work is not my main calling right now. I’ve been a pastor for many years. Then, I could afford to seat in a place and do what I use to do. When I began to travel, the church frowned at it and almost everybody left but they now understand my calling and they know they are not here because of me. There is a price to pay for obedience. Many pastors don’t want to travel because they don’t want to lose their seat. It’s about the kingdom of God and not about the local assembly. You know when you start to travel you will begin to lose membership, but I believe the bigger picture at the end of the day is worth it. What I see God do outside cannot be quantified. Some people have to travel three days to attend our conferences.

People cross over from Russia and underground churches in Vietnam. People buy the tapes and share same while some transcribe into local languages. Coming to the church because of the pastor has to do with a mind that has not been regenerated. You are looking at the man as if it is the man that does it, forgetting that God can use any body. We should stop looking at the people but God who can use anybody. The Church should be detached from the pastor and build a solid relationship with the owner of the church, Who is Christ.

How can the Church have impact on the nation’s polity?

When we present real Christianity to the people it will affect the nation. The problem in Nigeria is that we are preaching a people-friendly message. We are preaching so that the people can be happy. We are not calling a spade a spade. I believe that when the people begin to preach the uncompromising word of God, which has enough power to change life, it will bring about a revolution. Today, there are prayer contractors; those who want to pay to be prayed for. It’s like people want to be deceived.

When you look at your congregation what are the things that make you happy?
The few I see today are not what they were. Lives have been changed completely. Some came in here as 419, some came in here as drug pushers but today they are changed, on fire for God and focused. Some have built huge businesses by following biblical principles.

What agenda do you have for the new CAN leadership?
I’m happy that Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor is the new president of CAN. I hope that will give CAN a voice and a focus and impact.

Shouldn’t the Church have practical ways of infusing good lifestyle?
Definitely, that’s why I said if the real gospel is preached. For example if someone who has heard the real gospel becomes a senator, it will show. But if people who have not heard the real gospel become whatever they want to become, nobody feels it. That’s why those who claim to be Christians who are in authority have no influence because they have nothing to give back. That’s the problem. President Barak Obama was in the church for over 20 years but he never learnt anything from the church. The church was not talking about the gospel. It was talking about black and white problems, black punishment and other problems. I’m sure God will hold His pastors responsible. Obama is more of a Muslim than a Christian.

Do you subscribe to pastors counselling politicians?
Definitely! I subscribe to that. We need to understand what it takes for a Christian to be in politics and how he/she can remain a Christian and not compromise. What I see in this country is that for you to be in politics you have to be in a cult. So many Christians have a problem. That’s the challenge. You don’t have to bow before a shrine to become a governor or commissioner. You must be able to stand out and make the difference and everyone will know that you are a Christian and you can take God by His word. Politics is a calling. If you don’t have the calling don’t go there. If God calls you, He will give you the grace to execute your calling.

What is your mandate?
My mandate is to wake up the sleeping Church to wait for the coming of the Lord. He is coming soon; that is the truth. Every Christian should begin to look for souls and evangelize as directed by God.

I’m wondering how you will carry out your mandate if you do not belong to either the PFN or CAN?
I’m called to the Church of God to lead people to the kingdom of God and not my kingdom.

With 2011 elections around the corner, how do you intend to educate your members on the electoral processes?

My members are not kids. They know what to do.

What advice do you have for the government to ensure a free and fair election?

They know what to do but refuse to do it. Government should first implement the electoral reforms and things will get back into shape. We need to get back to Option A4. Nigerians are tired, because indeed they know their votes don’t count and there are no indicators that point to the fact that it will count. That’s the reality.

Should President Jonathan contest in 2011?

No! It’s the turn of the North. The party needs to stick to its agreement. It’s not enough to have a good man as the head of INEC, when the system is messed up. Let the right thing be put in place.