l2023 polls a learning process  lPDP must not disappear like ANPP lWhy I won’t quit politics now

By Dapo Akinrefon

CHIEF Olabode Ibiyinka George, a former Military Administrator of old Ondo State and a former Deputy National Chairman of the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, in this interview, speaks on the 2023 general elections, the Supreme Court verdict that affirmed President Bola Tinubu’s victory, the lessons learned by the PDP, the need to revisit the 2014 National Conference report and why he will not quit politics now. 

Excerpts: 

What is your reaction to the Supreme Court verdict on the winner of the 2023 elections?

I listened and heard the judgment, I became very sad. As the apex body, I was very disappointed about that judgment. If he won justifiably and seamlessly, why not? No problem. There are two major areas of concern for me. One, Okoro redefined the status of Abuja. How? You must have the majority of votes and you must win in two-thirds of the states of the federation and Abuja. Abuja is not among the states because Abuja is not a state. I believe the Supreme Court has given a ruling in the past. So, why is Justice Okoro driving us back into the jungle? The whole world is growing.

He has been declared and we cannot do anything more. He has four years to spend, but the pages of history when they write about this season, will they be very kind to those justices?  I am not an Englishman, but I studied English. What that section means is rear it is an addition to two-thirds of the state. Maybe we need to call the king of England to come and explain to us that it is additional. 

By any definition, Abuja cannot be a state; it is like Washington DC in the United States. The numbers of states are well defined and the national capital is Washington DC. Do you think they will now treat Washington DC as a state? What is going on? For my education, I feel very bothered. It takes me to the second question.

Democracy is the government of the people, by the people and for the people. The decision must come from the electorate to say this is the man we want and we don’t want you. That is the essence. The definition of democracy by Abraham Lincoln has not changed. Let’s take a cursory look at Kenya in the last election between Kenyatta and Odinga. Because there was a great disagreement, the Supreme Court said go and fix it, we will not appoint a president for you, let the will of the people prevail, go back to the people, and let them do it again. 

Do you also agree with legal luminaries who say the Supreme Court should not determine the winner of any election?

Right now, what it means is that those seven justices decided the president, vice president, the failure and who isn’t a failure.

Why ask Nigerians to come out and vote if only seven justices will decide our future? Then let it be that they are redefining democracy as a government of the judiciary for the judiciary and by the judiciary. That is a new concept and that is what they have done. All said and done, it is a lesson. We thank God people are still looking and watching. 

That is my departure from that judgment. For God’s sake, this nation should be growing up. From the national global view, those are my observations and they will go into my records. Remember the 12 two-thirds saga for Obafemi Awolowo which Richard Akinjide redefined? There were honourable, spirited, committed justices who said no, how do you calculate two-thirds of the states? Will you chop some people off? Go and read the dissenting voice of Justice Kayode Eso and another man from Edo State. They are gone now, but we read them on the pages of history. Justice, fairness and equity are the cordial end of the electoral process.  But now, it is time for governance.

Do you think Nigerians will have confidence in the Independent Electoral Commission, INEC, to conduct a free and fair election?

The day President Muhammadu Buhari announced that a huge amount of money had been budgeted to acquire modern equipment for the electoral process, I threw a party here. When the system came, they did a test run in Anambra, Ekiti, and Osun states; there was no manipulator or interloper. What you put is what you get. I am an Electronic Engineer with 56 years of practice. In my days, when you talk of computers, a whole room can be the computer, they were so massive. Look at micro-computers now, with the speed of operation, you don’t need to start manipulating. 

During the last general elections, however, I voted somewhere and at the end of the voting, they counted the results and we were all there listening. When they finished, it went straight to the server. It didn’t have to go from the wards to the collation centres. I know the impact of data processing because my training in the Navy gave me that access.

For me, I see how it has ended. The verdict has been rendered, but we should take a cursory look at some other countries because whatever we do is a reflection of who we are outside this country. Look at little Kenya there. The new president is still there and the other man who lost, when their Supreme Court said go and revisit it, won and congratulated him. There is peace now in Kenya. The people must decide, not the judiciary. The judiciary will listen to it, but it is not a matter of two fighting between A and B. They think it is just Atiku versus Bola Tinubu and Obi Vs Bola Tinubu, no. These are just representatives of the people who voted. 

In South Africa, there is no individualism; it is your party’s name that is on the ballot. It is at the end of that election when your party has the majority that questions about who will be president or Vice President will arise. That is the way they do their own and maybe it is better than this trash we are doing. You wait until when your party has won which means that would force you to ensure that your party is in good stead with the public.

Atiku Abubakar has said he will continue to struggle and won’t leave the stage. Are you on the same page with him? Where do you see the PDP before the next election given the cracks in the party?

Yes, I will tell you that we have certain disagreements, but we have to be very careful. Being given a knockout doesn’t mean that you are out. It should be an experience in which you will need to do an x-ray, and a post-mortem analysis and ensure that the mistakes made at that time will not be repeated. It is a learning process for us. 

As a very strong member of the PDP, I don’t want to go to the marketplace to start undressing the party. There were mistakes on all sides. We can disagree, but we must never be disagreeable. We need to get back and set up a committee that would examine the activities – individuals, and groups – that made us open our gates carelessly. I said it severally. Where did Obi come from? Where did Kwankwaso come from? Where is Atiku from? If you add those figures, who will be in the Villa? I will always thank those founding fathers of the PDP. They were selfless, committed and loved this country.  Bola Ige was part of them. Can you see Bola Ige and  Alex Ekwueme sit down in the room discussing politics? Or Nwobodo and Ekwueme? What will they say they are talking about? But they all came together for the development and interest of this country. They realised that the majority in the First Republic had their way and their say and the minorities were just onlookers. They knew that was the major crisis. They then sat down and conceptualised a new system within the democratic structure. They said let us divide Nigeria into six geopolitical zones. It came from them. North-East, North-West, North-Central, South-East, South-West and South-South; six geopolitical zones and six top positions. Every zone will go home with one of these top positions and you are not just Mr Siddon dey look. 

It was marvellous. Human beings started tinkering with that arrangement, we told them. If you look at it, the first one is the president; the second one is the vice president; the third one is the senate President; the fourth one is the speaker; the fifth is the secretary of Government and the last one National Chairman. The odd numbers will be in the same positions whether North or South and the even numbers will go to the other side. They completely twisted that concept that those founding fathers established as the norm. We’ve learnt a lesson now. 

But PDP is atrophying?

I will plead with everybody. I know I still have some of my colleagues; we will be the elders in the room. Everybody will have to calm down. Is there any human being created by God that will be everlasting? Let us do what is just, fair and equitable. This is a lesson for us. This ship of state must not disappear like the All Nigeria Peoples Party, ANPP, or even All Peoples Party.

Some of your party leaders are already jumping ship.  Do you fear that more will jump ship?

I don’t watch the crystal ball. I don’t go to a herbalist. I follow the dictates of the Almighty God. Anybody who wants to jump anywhere should. As a general, if I have three reliable, dependable, committed loyalists, I will go to war.

What are your fears for the opposition parties considering the type of president we have, a man who knows the game of politics and its nuances too well and who understands the nature of human greed?

He will force us to go and think properly when we are doing our post-mortem. Go anywhere you want. The Labour Party is not a political party, it is a movement. Some of their people do not have roots in the wards. It was just a movement and a movement cannot be a political structure, like the Iroko Tree. For any tree, if you touch the tap root, it is gone. 

The taproot of PDP is still solidly there. Where we messed up was ‘it must be me’ and manipulating a very simple, straightforward analysis. They allowed them to tinker with things and we have seen it now. We should go back and remind ourselves of the beginnings. We must have knowledgeable, loyal elders to be in the room. You may have as much money as you want to have, but that is your business. It should not affect this organisation set up for oneness, and justice in this land. 

From the swampy forests to the Savannah regions in the North, there is no state, no village, and no local government where you won’t find the PDP. It is the only national party in all colours. APC itself is a congregation of strange bedfellows. Is that a party? I see it as a lesson to us. Those who will tell us they want to go, it is an individual decision. If you don’t like us, you go. Have you forgotten that some people ran away one time? They walked out on the convention floor. Don’t they have people existing where they are going?

What is it between you and President Tinubu?

There is nothing personal between me and him.  In that office, I have worked with five presidents in this country. I worked with General Ibrahim Babangida, Sani Abacha, Olusegun Obasanjo, Umar Yar’Adua and Goodluck Jonathan. Is there anybody else missing that I worked with? I am here now. The pages of history will tell us. I want to give him a little bit of time because here he is.  I want to advise that he has to be very careful. Abuja isn’t Lagos. You have the whole tribe working in that Villa. I will want to remind him that the journey of life is never trouble-free. The ups and downs of life!  The maximum time you will spend there is eight years and you will leave. Look at General Muhammadu Buhari, how will the analysis of his period in governance sound like? The insurgency is rising by the hour, the people are hungry. If they are not telling the president the truth, there is hunger in the land which means there is anger in the land. What about businesses? The cost of diesel and the cost of transportation? If you want to set up a palliative for the people, you can take a cue from the British government. You know what they did? They told the energy supplier to cut down every household, and then we will pay. That is palliative, not small cups of rice. Teach them how to fish so they can feed themselves forever.

Let them moderate. They want to repair a government house for N4 billion, they want to buy a yacht, for what? He said they will give student loans, what is delaying it? Is the N5 billion given to governors money? Right now, the value of our money is rubbish. 

My advice is that it is now time for governance. It is time to know the needs of the people and adequately provide them. I must say it too that this constitution we are running is like a military organisation. You know in the military, it is hierarchical: there is a boss at the top. Once he gives orders, it circulates to the bottom. But in democracy, the power comes from the base. I think we must revisit this constitution because everything you get from every state, you carry to Abuja and Abuja will now start to cut. Lagos is the most populated state in this country, we have only 20 local governments. Kano, next to us, is 44. They created Jigawa out of Kano, Jigawa is about 20-something plus – plus Kano’s 44. All those numbers collect funds from the federation’s account monthly. Ogun State which is next to Lagos has 20 local governments. What is their population? We are 20 local governments. There must be intentional devolution of power to the states. 

We are told that the resolutions of the 2014 National Conference were arrived at by consensus, that is by general agreement.

I was at the constitutional conference where we revisited the constitution and made a lot of amendments and for the first time in the history of this country, that exercise was successfully concluded. The report was ready and we presented it to President Jonathan.  They took it up in the Federal Executive Council, but by the time he sent it to the lawmakers, they said it was too short a time that they were heading for elections and our party controlled both Houses at the time. When Buhari came, he handed over the report to General Buhari, who said he would put it in the archives. It is still there. He (Tinubu) should pick it up, let’s talk about it because we must redesign this nation. The resources of the state must be controlled by the states as they do in America. We copied the American system. We must tone down, and allow the states and woe betide that governor who will not serve his people.

Like what is going on now with hunger and misery, people will start gunning for their governors.  What is the essence of governance if it is not close to the people? We must reduce the power at the centre, and ensure proper redistribution of power. We cannot go to the regional system anymore. Let us have the United States of Nigeria. We copied the system, let’s do it that way. What is wrong with having state police? In America, some states have a double Assembly, but some states cannot afford it so they run only one. 

In the United States of America, they even have county police. That is like the local government police because the closer you are to the people, you can manage security. After all, you virtually will know everybody around that local government and they will also know you. Before anything starts, the local police are there. That is the essence of having security for the people because the number one job of government is the protection of lives and properties. 

The debt burden is such that…

(Cuts in).  Don’t even go there. Look at our debt portfolio; they cancelled it when Baba (Obasanjo) was there. See the amount we owe now, how will our children’s children pay the money? What is our income now? There is a need to revisit these things and it’s time for governance. All I will do by the grace of God is that we want to make sure we have a formidable opposition to keep the government on its toes. This isn’t the time to start petty disagreements, but to make life meaningful to us all.

You had threatened to quit politics and go into exile after the 2023 general elections, are you still going ahead?

I had made those plans ready to go. Of course, you know we have elders. I said I needed to bow out, but somebody said ‘Sir, you have taken us to the middle of the sea and you want to abandon ship there as the skipper. No!  Take us back to the harbour and you can go.’ That struck me. That is why I said my approach to this situation is once they call a general meeting, I will be part of the other elders who will be elders in the room. Let us now clean the Augean Stable, prepare our party as was designed by the founding fathers and respect the constitution of the party. That is why I am still a little bit active here. 

Lagos