•But we’re resolving them

•Jumping into APC does not guarantee you a ticket

•Senate now seen as house of commotion

•Adds: We’re not rubber stamp Senate

By Chioma Gabriel, Editor Special Features

The Senate Minority Leader, Senator Abba Moro, representing Benue South Senatorial District in the current senate, in this interview, speaks about the current situation in the senate and other national issues. Excerpts:

People are saying the Senate is now a house of commotion. What do you think of what is going on between the Senate president, Godswill   Akpabio, and Senator Natasha Akpoti-Uduaghan?

You have given us a name, the Senate House of Commotion.  Well, I want to say that what is going on in the Senate is unfortunate and it is avoidable, but it has happened and the step that all of us are taking now is to see how we can mitigate the consequences of what has happened. I can assure you that I am in the forefront of ensuring that peace and tranquility and some level of understanding prevails in the Senate eventually.

The  lady in question has been suspended for six months, and she is not taking it lightly?

Well, if you were her you certainly would not take it.  But like I said, we in the opposition are taking steps to ensure that some level of understanding prevails eventually. In our last meeting, we had set up a committee for some members of the opposition to interface with Senator Natasha, and of course the Senate President. We had agreed, even after the plenary, during which she was suspended, that we should not give up on ourselves, we must continue to make efforts to  achieve  peace in the Senate.

Some  people think that her allegations are unfounded.

Well, quite frankly, I do not intend to dabble into allegations that some people are saying are founded or not founded. The point here is that those allegations that have been made, like I said, are something that have already happened and she has also laid a petition before the Senate, which the Senate says offends some rules of the Senate.

I don’t know what next steps she is going to take, but again, I believe that eventually we will resolve these matters. I could have made my personal position known here, but as an arbiter, as a mediator that I want to think I want to be, I think it will be pre-empting the whole situation if I begin to make personal opinions about this matter. So, I reserve these personal opinions until all the efforts we are making to resolve the differences have come and gone.

I have an opinion but at this moment, if you heard my comment on the floor of the Senate during the plenary, I had indicated that the Senate had been a one family. I think that Nigeria deserves more from us than engaging in issues that are patently not part of our mandates. They are incidental issues, and because they affect one person or the other — this has to do with a member of the Senate who happens to be a member of my party. It affects the leadership of the Senate, and I happen to be a member of the leadership of the Senate. So, all we can do at this moment, all I can say at this moment is that my personal opinion will not matter right now because I’m in the centre of the storm. And if I must prevail on one party or the other or both parties to refrain from further altercation and confrontation, then definitely you will agree with me that it is necessary for me to keep my personal opinion at bay now and work on the possibility of restoring peace.

But the issue is escalating?

Well, that is what we intend to abate. The issue is escalating, yes, but we are working, like I said, towards ensuring that it doesn’t get beyond repair.

Many think it could lead to the ouster of the senate President.

Well, I think again that is a leading question that I’m not able to answer. I’m not God. I can’t predict tomorrow, and I can’t see tomorrow. If we are working for peace to return, then the question of ouster here may not arise. We are thinking about making sure that normalcy returns to the Senate. We are thinking that we should restore peace between the persons involved in this matter and so predicting that the Senate President will be consumed in the process or thinking that Senator Natasha would permanently remain suspended from the Senate is not, in my view, appropriate at this time until we have exhausted all avenues for reconciling the parties involved.

The senators are too old to be talking about sexual harassment at this point and they are distracting themselves from the main functions for which the people voted them.

  I think again that that is an issue that we would talk about at the end of the day. But if you ask me, I agree with you completely that it’s an avoidable distraction and it’s making the whole place look ungovernable. But in a gathering of men and women, certainly these disagreements are bound to occur. Otherwise, I do not see why this one should become the focus of our discussion in the Senate instead of a discussion on the rules of engagement in the Senate. The sexual harassment angle is certainly, like I said, an avoidable situation. Like it has been canvassed on social media and the main media already, these are two families that have been friends over time. And so, if there are issues like this of sexual advances or sexual harassment and the rest of it, they are issues that can be discussed personally between the families.

If you recall, Senator Natasha Uduaghan had indicated that on one of those instances, the husband was there. I mean, come on. How do you add up all these things and the rest of them? So, that is why I say, look, let’s sit down and talk about these things and resolve them and then move forward.

This Senate has been perceived as a rubber-stamp Senate.

No, I don’t believe that. I mean, we watch discussions that have been going on in the Senate. It is not a matter of characterizing the Senate as a rubber-stamp Senate. For what reason, when they bring budgets, we debate budgets. When they bring bills, we debate bills and reach agreements on the way forward. Occasionally, the Senate agrees with the executive on issues and that does not make the Senate a rubber stamp. In any case, we are not elected here to come and fight ourselves, come and confront ourselves, but to debate issues and think about the best way forward. I understand perfectly when Nigerians express some anxiety over issues that come before the Senate. It is unfortunate that sometimes, you think that when things don’t happen the way you want them to happen, then somebody is not doing something right. That is not correct. There are different ways that we can look at the problems that come from Nigeria, and there are also different ways that we can pass solutions to these problems.

So, once it does not agree with you and you go ahead and say that these people are doing nothing, these are do-nothing people and the rest of that, these are rubber stamp people, it is not correct. I was in the 9th Senate. They said the 9th Senate was a rubber stamp.

Now, I am in the 10th Senate, they are saying the 10th Senate is a rubber stamp. At what point will Nigerians agree that the Senate is doing its best within the limit of their own abilities?

I don’t think so, the earlier we agreed among ourselves on how to move Nigeria forward.    We are representatives of the people and if there are things that people are doing or your representatives are doing that you think is not correct, you go to them. You write to them and then render your opinion. If issues come to the floor and you are aware of it, the normal thing to do is to write to your representatives and say, ‘look, this is how we want it done’, and then we follow through in the arguments. It may not scale through, but if it scales through, fine. That is how it is done in all other civilized democracies.

It is not to just always come on the pages of newspapers and social media and begin to criticize    your representatives as never-do-well    people. That won’t move us forward. That won’t solve our problem.

I think that we should be offering constructive engagements to our representatives so that they can do what we want them to do. What we even want them to do may not be the best for the country. Let’s come down from all these high horses and ego journeys and engage ourselves constructively.

Nigeria needs good policies, Nigeria needs good governance; everybody is hurting. Many people are hurting. We need to find solutions to the myriad of problems. Engaging ourselves in unnecessary confrontations and unnecessary distractions will not solve the problem of Nigeria.

Many people are hurting; the people that they are representing are hurting but the Senators are living large, driving big cars, while the people they are representing are in poverty.

There you go again, you are looking at the cars of the senators, you don’t even know me, I have never met you before, you don’t even know what I eat in my house. You don’t know whether I’m hurting or not. But if I’m representing my people in the Senate, I’m trying to provide good governance for my people, you will agree with me that it would be inappropriate for me to start complaining. Everybody has its own level of problems, but the thing is that Nigerians jump into conclusions.  What do you expect a senator to do, to ride a bicycle to the office or to trek to the office?

No; but to reduce these expenses, they can use made in Nigeria cars?

No, no, no, you mentioned a car. What is the comparative cost of made in Nigeria cars and foreign cars? Because if you go to the market now as a woman to buy tomato, to buy alubasa (onion), the market woman will tell you because the dollar has gone up. It’s not as if it is because the tomato is produced in Nigeria, they are selling it at a Nigerian price, they tell you the dollar has gone up. So, buying Nigerian cars, these things are about choices, and because you have elected people, you want to limit their choices.   Let me tell you, even the vehicles that were purchased were not purchased based on the choice of senators. No. It is not that they asked me which type of car do you want to ride. No, they didn’t ask me, they didn’t ask any other legislator. I think that going about, talking about how the senator is living, don’t forget that we have billionaire senators.

So, what do you want them to do? Throw away the billions that they came to the senate with.   A colleague of mine recently told me that, ‘look, if this pittance is what I’m going to be getting and the rest of them, I have no business being here because in my business, I make more money than this. I don’t want to even continue to be here’. So, you have very wealthy persons who are senators, not like some of us that are from very poor backgrounds and the rest of them. So, many other persons are here that are billionaires and millionaires in their own rights.

But some don’t really care about their constituents.

Is that my judgment to make? No. Because there is no art to find a man’s construction on the face. I’m not in their minds, but I care about my own people, every other week, I go to my constituency to stay with them, to listen to them and I know that other senators and other representatives also do similar things. But let me tell you, we will continue to attend to Nigeria’s problems via good legislation. We will continue to do the best that we can. Nobody, no right-thinking person would be elected by his people or her people and come here and play around and not care about what happens to them. Don’t forget that every four years, everybody goes for election, and you will account to your people. If they are satisfied, then of course, they will re-elect you. There are also people who have not been re-elected because the people are not satisfied with their performance. So, these are the things that we must put into consideration and when issues come into the public domain for discussion, let us allow objectivity to prevail and not talk about personal issues concerning senators, concerning people who are governing. If you don’t respect your leader, how does he now settle down to work for you?   If you look at the problems of Nigeria now, add all the monies for the vehicles that you talked about, assuming all senators and House of Representatives members reject the vehicles, and the money is put back in the economy, in all honesty, will this solve all Nigeria’s problems? The answer is certainly no. But if we put out good legislation, if the government brings out good policies, they can regenerate the economy, making more funds available for infrastructures, for social engagements. That is the only way that we can grow the economy and grow the Nigerian people and alleviate poverty.

Many people have suggested that the House of Representatives and National Assembly business be made part-time instead of a full-time engagement.

I think that is a conversation for another day, that is a conversation that has to do with the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria and there are procedures for amending the constitution. If the people who are talking about making the National Assembly work part-time feel so strongly about it, then they can approach their representatives to propose amendments to the constitution.

You talked about people not respecting their leaders, do you know that people don’t believe in elections again? They don’t believe some of these people representing them were elected; that they just muscled their way there using the INEC and the judiciary.

Do you know that the greatest disservice that Nigerians can do to themselves is to lose faith in themselves. Don’t lose faith in yourself, don’t lose faith in your institutions. There is no institution; there is no human being that is perfect. What we will do is to strive towards perfection. If you lose faith in yourself and lose faith in the institutions that provide for you, my sister, it’s going to be a different ball game altogether. But like I said, Nigeria and democracy are work in progress.

And I think at the end of the day, we should be able to get it right. And we should be working towards getting it right. And the media and the electorate should help their representatives to get it right, because when we get it right, the country gets it right, then it will become good for all of us.

We are not even up to two years in this current regime, but there are indications everywhere that the politicians are already campaigning for 2027.   Is it not too early?

I agree with you completely; it is too early to be talking about the election in 2027. Like you said, we’re barely two years in this current tenure. Particularly, those who are in positions to govern Nigeria, I think they should concentrate more on their mandate and render proper accounts of what they are doing for the various constituents that have elected them. Campaigning for an office that you occupy now, to my mind, is like campaigning against oneself.

Some members of the opposition parties are moving to the ruling party. Do    you think the opposition will stand a chance in the coming election?

Like you said, we’re just barely two years into the current tenure, we have more than two years more to go and in politics, 24 hours is a very long time for things to change. I agree that certain politicians are gravitating from their parties to the ruling party and these are politicians that are characterised in the past as food-is-ready politicians. Once you do that, I think you are not helping to deepen democracy. I do not actually see why people are moving from their parties to the ruling party, for whatever reason. I honestly think that it is selfish interest that is driving most of this movement. Otherwise, you would agree with me that there is a need to have in a multi-party system, various political parties canvassing for various positions.

Jumping to the ruling party because your party has some form of crisis now or the other, is certainly not an option. I think that if there is a crisis in any political party, members of that political party should muster the necessary political will to resolve the differences and forge ahead, that is the only way we can deepen democracy.

Pulling towards just one direction is, pulling towards a one-party state. But God forbid, Nigeria is a multi-party democracy and some of us will continue to fight for that.

But the opposition parties are in crisis?

The opposition parties are in crisis just like the ruling party is also in crisis; there is no political party in Nigeria today that is not in crisis. I don’t want to think that you don’t know that even the ruling APC at some state levels, like in Benue, for instance, or at the national level, where some persons, some interests have taken the party chairman to court. I don’t see anything that is unique about the crisis in the opposition parties. In human organizations, you can always expect a difference of opinions, differences in lines of thinking, differences in lines of actions. But that doesn’t mean that those organizations are dead.

Certainly, in most instances, in party organizations, we disagree to agree, and, in this situation, I think that we would eventually come to some level of consensus, some level of agreement, to push forward in the interest of Nigeria.

The fear of the unknown is what is pushing some of these opposition members not to have confidence in themselves, they think that when they want another tenure in office, they may not be able to get it, except they go to APC.

  Well, that is certainly going to be a misplaced fear because even within the APC, all of them cannot be candidates at the same time. Those that are moving to APC now should know that there are also APC members who are interested in the positions that they are interested in. So, just like there will be competition in the parties that they are leaving, there will be competition in the parties that they are joining. I don’t see any wisdom in that fear, I don’t see any wisdom in that movement, because going to APC does not guarantee tickets.