Many Nigerians have expressed discomfort over  the apparent slow pace of the federal government under President Umaru Musa YarÁdua  in delivering on its electoral promises nearly one and a half years after its inauguration. Former Speaker of the House of Representatives, Alhaji Aminu Bello Masari  believes that even though the feeling of the citizens may be justified in this respect, it boils down to the style of the Katsina-born President.

He tells Saturday Vanguard in this interview that President YarÁdua however needs to energize his government with knowledgeable and vastly experienced people that could assist him to make the much desired impact on the population.
Excerpts:

The National Assembly is gearing up for Constitution review. The last time there was an attempt to review the document; it nded up in "the third term saga." How would you advise the lawmakers to go about it this time to avoid the problems of the past exercise? 

When the Senate had their retreat in Port Harcourt, I was invited to chair a session and I was very categorical based on the experience we had when we attempted to review the Constitution and my advice to them was to look at some of the non-controversial areas and see how the amendment goes. But if they attempt to review the entire constitution, in the first place, I don't think they are a constituent assembly, certainly, they will not make any progress reviewing the whole of the constitution. It is a process which is very cumbersome in a democracy considering the vested interests.

Former Speaker House of Reps, Alhaji Aminu Bello Masari

Take for example states creation.  It is a very contentious issue. Some want it because they say they want the federation to be balanced. Some want it because they say they have population when compared to other states. There are some states that are three times in terms of population, the size of other states. The same goes for local government creation. Fundamentally, if you look at states and local government creation since it was started, how much has it impacted the  lives of the ordinary people? You are only creating more bureaucracy, more resources going into the services and maintenance of those bureaucracies without doing the actual work for the ordinary Nigerian.

So, I do not think that proliferation of states and local governments will really solve the fundamental problem of addressing the basic needs of our people. Again, the fear being expressed about those who are asking for constitutional amendment I think can be addressed within the constitution. For example, there are certain states that unless you amend the constitution, the way it is, certain sections of the state or certain tribes of the states will never produce governors of the states.

So, there is the need for now even if it is in the interim to say 'we will allow rotation to take place for a certain number of years after which if there is still the need, then through a resolution of the state house of assembly, it can be extended. Another dimension why there is the need to provide safeguard for states and local governments is that we have seen the
emergence of new majorities and new minorities not on the basis religion, not on the basis of tribe, not on the basis of culture but on the basis of bureaucracy, on the basis of economy.

We have to address this issue. I believe if we do that, we will see the agitation for more states and local governments reduce because if you run the states and local governments, you rotate the offices. We are trying to fashion out a democracy that suits our culture because in coming out with whatever we want to come out with, we have to come out with something that relates to our culture and our tradition and also something that addresses the fundamental fears of the minorities. Like I said the new definition of minority is not only about tribes, religion. It is more about more geography and economic strength of the area. So, there are certain issues the constitutional amendment must really address.

Let's say for the next 30 years, certain offices should be allocated to a certain area after which it can change but at the end of the day, a good leader is better than zoning or rotation. But the reality on ground is that there are fears, there is mistrust, people are not sure and so you have to bring to bring out something that will reassure them and this has to be cultivated over time. Maybe after sometime, people will no longer care from where the leader comes provided he is delivering services to the people.

I think these are some of the areas the review should focus on. And again, the role of local government; people are citing the American system that it recognizes only states but the circumstances of creating the United States are different from the circumstances of creating Nigeria. Those were independent states which decided to merge and form one united country and decided to transfer certain powers to the centre.

In our own case, we were created like that even though we had semi autonomous regions before the coup of 1966. It was a federation created by the colonial masters between the south, east, south west and north. So, historical circumstances can differ but you cannot go on creating states and local governments and committing all our resources to payment of salaries, maintenance of offices, stationeries, overheads and all that. If you do that, at the end of the day, nobody earns a living wage. Really, it is a huge confusion but I think the fear can be addressed through constitutional amendment and not through more states and more local governments.

There had been arguments for the inclusion of rotational presidency in the constitution. Do you think this is an area that should be given consideration in the amendment exercise?

You see, sometimes you have some unwritten laws derived mostly from conventions and tradition. If by convention we have agreed to rotate, then we may not need to enshrine it in the constitution. . But the duration should not be something that is endless. If there is only one party or all the political parties are in agreement...for example, you are in party C, you produce the President from the north and I am in party F and I have a better material from the south. So, really the rotation as at now is within the political parties not within the entire polity itself. People may say it is undemocratic. Yes, but peculiarity...you have to address some peculiarities, you have to address certain fears until such a time that you no longer have such fears and uncertainties.

It can even die naturally but as of now as we are trying to build. All of the problems in most of Africa countries are linked to tribal leaning, regional considerations and religious considerations. We saw what happened in Kenya recently. Whatever was the foundation, at the end of the day, it turned out to be a tribal confrontation. If you look at the way Mugabe (President of Zimbabwe) came to power, he edged out his opponents including Nkomo, Sithole, and Muzerawa through tribal leaning because his own tribe shona was the largest.

He used that even though these people were supposed to be his leaders. He is clinging on to power up to this moment using tribe. It is only now that somebody coming form his own tribe is challenging him. We have seen what happened in Cote de Ivoire. It is the same problem. We have seen what nearly happened in South Africa but the ANC said no. Jacob Zuma is from Kwazulu land...so, in Africa politics, these things cannot simply be dismissed.

In Nigeria we thank God that in spite of our differences in so many areas, we are able to live peacefully but you can see that the Ibos are still complaining since the end of the civil war they have not been fully reintegrated. But we had a vice president who was an Ibo man. Maybe they are eyeing the issue of the president. So, what I am saying is that we have to look at peculiarities build a solid foundation on the basis of our peculiarities, culture, tradition and our belief. I think it is possible.
 
Let us look at the House of   Representatives. How will you compare your era as Speaker to the present era of Dimeji Bankole?
You see, the bulk of the parliament is made up of new faces. One party has a comfortable majority and with executive powers. Our own was a continuation of 2003-2007 but by 2007 election, we saw that the new members became about 80%. Except for the bureaucracy which services the parliament, everything in parliament seems to be new even though the leadership happened to come from the cognate members of the House; procedure and everything, nothing has changed. Of course, personalities will always change and every personality will come with his own management. Tactics remain the same beside all the ups and down they witnessed between 2007 till date, the objective remains the same and the focus remains the same.

It looks like Bankole's leadership is having some challenges trying to reconstitute the standing committees nearly two months after dissolving them. What word of advice can you offer him regarding the pressure he may be in now?
 

I absolutely believe that he knows what to do and at the end of the day, he will do that. But you have to understanding that when you are constituting meetings whether in a fresh session or you are reconstituting on the basis of performance, you are bound to have pressure from more than three angles.

The members themselves; they put pressure on you on where they want to go, the demands of the job will also put pressure on you because you will want to put everybody where he will perform best. That is your judgement as the one who is supervising. Thirdly, there may be external forces, people who will be asking you for favour for their friends, their relations and other considerations. Sometimes, you may even get pressure from the party itself. The pressure from the party, in particular the one we had, was not involving anybody who was not a member of our party which we resisted because we wanted to use the fact that we could in order to achieve our objective. And also, we knew the dynamics of the politics of the House more than those in the party headquarters.

In some cases, you even had the most serious opposition from within your own party and not from the other parties. The other parties may be criticizing but not opposing. But those who are opposing you are those who will one way either benefit when you fail and they take up the leadership or if somebody else comes in, they get a better position than what you have offered them. So, you could see that there are so many pressures. I am absolutely that he is under intense pressure; from among the leadership of the House or by extension, the National Assembly, the party and the external forces; people who were his friends or people who will use his associates who they will ask to speak to him on their behalf and the with the African setting where we have the extended family system, pressure is bound to be brought to bear. I think they are delaying
because they are also reconstituting the membership not just the leadership.

When we were reconstituting the committees, we reconstituted the leadership of the committees. But in their own case, they are reconstituting the membership of the committees. So, it is like doing a new thing completely. I think theirs is going to be very difficult, time consuming and very demanding. Certainly, people will try to exert pressure. And again, 80% of them are new although many of them are very experienced in the politics of the National Assembly because of the crisis my friend, Mrs. Etteh went through. Really, I know he is under pressure.

It looks like Nigerians are yet to feel the impact of this government almost a year and half after it was inaugurated. How do you see the progress of the administration? 

Well, as a Nigerian, I will say what most people are saying is true but for me I know the President. He was my governor for eight years and so I know his style. If you are trying to compare the past President (Olusegun Obasanjo) and President YarÁdua; one was brash and another one is careful and so the management styles are very different. This one is an introvert and the other one is an extrovert.

The other one would go fishing for problems and this one will try as much as possible to avoid and to run away from problems. The previous President would go and look for it by his very nature. Obviously, the style of leadership has dramatically changed. I feel that the transition from that system to this system is a bit slow to some people. Again, the budgeting problem, I believe the government has not been able to fully resolve.

The 2008 budget started late with a lot of problems and almost the entire budget was returned for amendment which is still not out and we are now talking of 2009 budget. Really, the government needs to grasp the budgeting process. It needs to bring in people who have wider understanding of the system and more knowledgeable in the intricacies of power play and managing Nigerian politics. Nigeria is a complex country. So, you really need people both within and outside government who understand the system that would really ginger up the process of governance.

There is also the need for those operating in government to have confidence in what they are doing. They are supposed to be forthcoming, confident, and knowledgeable and people that can be trusted to work the country, people that can work the talk, not people who talk but cannot work their talk. We want people who will work their talk because this country is ours. We have no other country. It is a collective responsibility. It is more so for somebody like me who comes from the same party with the President and who comes from the same state with the President. It is in my best interest that he succeeds, that I do whatever I can to make sure that he succeeds. It is in the interest of this country. Certainly, there is the need to bring in people who can do the job.

He has given an indication that he may restructure his government and you have spoken about the need for him to bring him new people. What can you say about that? What definition of people are we talking about here?

When the former President merged ministries toward the tail end of his tenure, it was a total mistake. There was no need for doing that by a President that was going out and since we have not diversified the economy, we have not removed the government presence...the economy is still dependent on government and government is still at the commanding heights of the economy, so the ministries as they were, were expected to be were very much desirable and there is the need for them to remain as they were.

I could not see the rationale for merging the ministries at the end of his tenure when you would not be there to see why you did that and to know how it works. So, I am really happy that the President finally decided to de-merge those ministries and take them to their original homes. I think we can reach there. If you begin to disengage government from these ministries, some ministries will just die a natural death. Until and unless we do that, you simply cannot say you are merging ministries. Look at Transportation, Aviation, Railway, Ports Authority...look at communication, you say it is Information. I don't know the rationale. People were just trying to say 'we have done this and we have done that.' Former President and his team wanted to say 'we have done this, we have done that.' The same goes for Education. How could you think of privatizing education?

People want to say 'we have done and we have done that' when they had no time. It is good to come out with a policy when you have time and see the shortfalls and correct them.

There are eminent persons in Nigeria and very enterprising young men. Whichever way you look at it, we saw the difference made by the young men and women Obasanjo brought into his government between 2003 and 2007. They are Nigerians. There are millions like them in Nigeria. Running the Nigerian state has two angles to it; the political angle and the economic angle. Whenever you have an economic policy, you have to give it some political consideration for it to work. We know that the system works better when there are so many friends, associates, contacts, etc. We saw how networks of associates helped the immediate past President. We were there and we saw some of the ways they worked.

There is the talk of the presence of Katsina Mafia in the Villa. Do you think there is a bloc like that which determines what President YarÁdua does?
 The President was a governor and certainly, there were people he was working with in Katsina. While some of them may remain in Katsina, some of them will come here with him. But if you look at the government, was (Babagana) Kingibe from Katsina? The immediate past Chief of Staff is from Kwara; is he from Katsina? The current Principal Secretary to the President is from Delta; is he from Katsina? Really, me I don't see why people are complaining about the Katsina Mafia. Who are the Katsina Mafia in the Villa? The only Katsina man who you can say is in the Villa is the Special Adviser on Economic Matters. The other one is a minister and every state is entitled to a minister. So, who are the Katsina Mafia? I don't know them. If they are there, I don't know them. I read too in the papers that I am a victim of Katsina Mafia. I don't know if it exists.

What are your thoughts on Nigeria at 48?
It has been a long and chequered history for us as a nation, perhaps not exactly unexpected as a third world country.   We are blessed with abundant natural and human resources that ought to place us among highly industrialized nations of the world if only they had been better managed. But we must hopeful as citizens of this country that things will get better.

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